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What The Missionaries Won't Tell You

Posted by: Andee / Category: , , ,

Here are a few of my favorite examples of how missionaries use "milk before meat" to keep members and investigators away from anything that might keep them from the church. This is far from honest, in my humble opinion.

For the complete list that Richard Packham wrote, complete with notes, please click here.

Contemporaries of Smith consistently described him as something of a confidence man, whose chief source of income was hiring out to local farmers to help them find buried treasure by the use of folk magic and "seer stones." Smith was actually tried in 1826 on a charge of moneydigging. It is interesting that none of his critics seemed to be aware of his claim to have been visited by God in 1820, even though in his 1838 account he claimed that he had suffered "great persecution" for telling people of his vision.

The only persons who claimed to have actually seen the gold plates were eleven close friends of Smith (many of them related to each other). Their testimonies are printed in the front of every copy of the Book of Mormon. No disinterested third party was ever allowed to examine them. They were retrieved by the angel at some unrecorded point. Most of the witnesses later abandoned Smith and left his movement. Smith then called them "liars."

Smith produced most of the "translation" not by reading the plates through the Urim and Thummim (described as a pair of sacred spectacles), but by gazing at the same "seer stone" he had used for treasure hunting. He would place the stone into his hat, and then cover his face with it. For much of the time he was dictating, the gold plates were not even present, but in a hiding place.

Many of the basic historical notions found in the Book of Mormon had appeared in print already in 1825, just two years before Smith began producing the Book of Mormon, in a book called View of the Hebrews, by Ethan Smith (no relation) and published just a few miles from where Joseph Smith lived. A careful study of this obscure book led one LDS church official (the historian B. H. Roberts, 1857-1933) to confess that the evidence tended to show that the Book of Mormon was not an ancient record, but concocted by Joseph Smith himself, based on ideas he had read in the earlier book.

The secret temple ritual (the "endowment") was introduced by Smith in May, 1842, just two months after he had been initiated into Freemasonry. The LDS temple ritual closely resembles the Masonic ritual of that day. Smith explained that the Masons had corrupted the ancient (God-given) ritual by changing it and removing parts of it, and that he was restoring it to its "pure" and "original" (and complete) form, as revealed to him by God. In the years since, the LDS church has made many fundamental changes in the "pure and original" ritual as "restored" by Smith, mostly by removing major parts of it.

Many doctrines which were once taught by the LDS church, and held to be fundamental, essential and "eternal", have been abandoned. Whether we feel that the church was correct in abandoning them is not the point; rather, the point is that a church claiming to be the church of God takes one "everlasting" position at one time and the opposite position at another, all the time claiming to be proclaiming the word of God. Some examples are:

  • The Adam-God doctrine (Adam is God the Father)
  • The United Order (all property of church members is to be held in common, with title in the church)
  • Plural Marriage (polygamy; a man must have more than one wife to attain the highest degree of heaven)
  • the Curse of Cain (the black race is not entitled to hold God's priesthood because it is cursed; this doctrine was not abandoned until 1978)
  • Blood Atonement (some sins - apostasy, adultery, murder, interracial marriage - must be atoned for by the shedding of the sinner's blood, preferably by someone appointed to do so by church authorities)

All of these doctrines were proclaimed by the reigning prophet to be the Word of God, "eternal," "everlasting," to govern the church "forevermore." All have been abandoned by the present church.

Joseph Smith claimed to be a "translator" by the power of God. In addition to the Book of Mormon, he made several other "translations":

  • The Book of Abraham, from Egyptian papyrus scrolls which came into his possession in 1835. He stated that the scrolls were written by the biblical Abraham "by his own hand." Smith's translation is now accepted as scripture by the LDS church, as part of its Pearl of Great Price. Smith also produced an "Egyptian Grammar" based on his translation. Modern scholars of ancient Egyptian agree that the scrolls are common Egyptian funeral scrolls, entirely pagan in nature, having nothing to do with Abraham, and from a period 2000 years later than Abraham. The "Grammar" has been said by Egyptologists to prove that Smith had no notion of the Egyptian language. It is pure fantasy: he made it up.
  • The "Inspired Revision" of the King James Bible. Smith was commanded by God to retranslate the Bible because the existing translations contained errors. He completed his translation in 1833, but the church still uses the King James Version.
  • The "Kinderhook Plates," a group of six metal plates with strange engraved characters, unearthed in 1843 near Kinderhook, Illinois, and examined by Smith, who began a "translation" of them. He never completed the translation, but he identified the plates as an "ancient record," and translated enough to identify the author as a descendant of Pharaoh. Local farmers later confessed that they had manufactured, engraved and buried the plates themselves as a hoax. They had apparently copied the characters from a Chinese tea box.
Mormonism includes many other unusual teachings which you will probably not be told about until you have been in the church for a long time. These teachings are not revealed to investigators or new converts because those people are not yet considered ready to have more than "milk" as doctrine. The Mormons also probably realize that if investigators knew of these unusual teachings they would not join the church. In addition to those mentioned elsewhere in this article, the following are noteworthy:

  • God was once a man like us.
  • God has a tangible body of flesh and bone.
  • God lives on a planet near the star Kolob.
  • God ("Heavenly Father") has at least one wife, our "Mother in Heaven," but she is so holy that we are not to discuss her nor pray to her.
  • Jesus was married.
  • We can become like God and rule over our own universe.
  • There are many gods, ruling over their own worlds.
  • Jesus and Satan ("Lucifer") are brothers, and they are our brothers - we are all spirit children of Heavenly Father
  • Jesus Christ was conceived by God the Father by having sex with Mary, who was temporarily his wife.
  • We should not pray to Jesus, nor try to feel a personal relationship with him.
  • The "Lord" ("Jehovah") in the Old Testament is the being named Jesus in the New Testament, but different from "God the Father" ("Elohim").
  • In the highest degree of the celestial kingdom some men will have more than one wife.
  • Before coming to this earth we lived as spirits in a "pre-existence", during which we were tested; our position in this life (whether born to Mormons or savages, or in America or Africa) is our reward or punishment for our obedience in that life.
  • Dark skin is a curse from God, the result of our sin, or the sin of our ancestors. If sufficiently righteous, a dark-skinned person will become light-skinned.
  • The Garden of Eden was in Missouri. All humanity before the Great Flood lived in the western hemisphere. The Ark transported Noah and the other survivors to the eastern hemisphere.
  • Not only will human beings be resurrected to eternal life, but also all animals - everything that has ever lived on earth - will be resurrected and dwell in heaven.
  • Christ will not return to earth in any year that has seen a rainbow.
  • Mormons should avoid traveling on water, since Satan rules the waters.
  • The sun receives its light from the star Kolob.
  • If a Gentile becomes Mormon, the Holy Ghost actually purges his Gentile blood and replaces it with Israelite blood.
  • A righteous Mormon will actually see the face of God in the Mormon temple.
  • You can identify a false angel by the color of his hair, or by offering to shake his hand.

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The Cutest Thing EVAR!!

Posted by: Andee / Category: ,

I can't post the video for some reason, but this is the link.

You won't regret it.


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Wanna Be Pissed Off In Under 5 Seconds? Watch This...

Posted by: Andee / Category: , , , ,

I have no words.


Just pure, venomous hatred.

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Pope Falls Asleep During Mass

Posted by: Andee / Category: , , ,

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Posted by: Andee / Category: , , , ,

Those who leave the Mormon church and have huge families within it have usually dealt with manipulation by leaders, friends and family members. Sometimes these people don't even realize they are using manipulation techniques to get their sinful, evil, non-tithing paying people back into the church, they are only focused on the end result... making sure everyone is on the straight and narrow.

Some stories of manipulation are kind of funny... take my case in high school for instance...

I had stopped attending church because I thought it was sexist. I couldn't take anymore girl's activities that included quilting, baking, sewing and crafting while the guys got to do things like repelling and playing ball. It was more that that, though. Our lessons consisted of telling us that we should marry a return missionary in the temple, have tons of babies and be faithful our entire lives. When I asked about a career (wanted to be a doctor at the time) I was told to pray about it, and if God wanted me to be a doctor, I shouldn't wait to get married and have kids... because yeah... med school is so easy with a newborn and toddler in the house?

Anyway, when I stopped attending I had a YW leader that took me on as a personal project. I wasn't exactly little miss popular in my tiny school, but I had tons of friends... most of them were non-Mormons. Suddenly, a couple really popular Mormon girls kept asking me to hang out with them... they acted as if we were best buddies and they couldn't wait to get together for this or that. I usually politely declined because I saw it for what it was... they really didn't care about *me* they just wanted my happy ass back in church every Sunday to hear their message.

Now, whats so bad about that? Right? A couple kids pretending to give a shit about your life and constantly (and I mean CONSTANTLY) requesting your presence in church activities and Sunday school?

It wasn't genuine.

I wanted a genuine life and genuine friends... not people who would like me as long as I did what they wanted me to do. A lifetime of fakery? No thanks.

It could have been much worse.

The other half of the manipulation stories are sometimes incredibly hard to read. Some faithful Mormons will do anything -ANYTHING- to keep their friends and family right where they want them. Regardless of that person's beliefs, thoughts, dreams and goals in life.

Some of these examples I found online in various ex-Mormon forums. I took out the names and usernames of the people who listed them, in case they don't want their information on my blog.

I just talked to my TBM Dad. He and my Mom are visiting next weekend for the first time in three years. They live 8 hours away. We've visited them several times since then and bought a new house last year. They didn't visit us then either. My Mom is retired and my Dad has 5 weeks of vacation plus government holidays. They aren't bedridden or in jail either.

Recently, they started making rumblings that they actually might visit us. My wife made the prediction that they would come late on a Saturday night so they can stay with us for free on the way to something else, go to church here, and leave immediately after Sacrament meeting.

Well, give the lady a prize! This morning, my Dad IM'd me and said that they are driving out to "Firth," Idaho (wherever in God's creation that is) to pick up an old truck that he bought off the Internet. They'll be here Saturday night, stay the night, and then leave immediately after Sacrament meeting.
And he wants me to call around and find out when the earliest service is, so they can be on their way as soon as possible. Apparently because his fingers are broken and he can't look it up on himself.

I was SO offended! They go to church every week, and they can't miss even this one time to spend 70 minutes with us. It's nice knowing where you fit in the overall scheme of things with your own parents. (1. Cult, 2. Kids.) I called [her] and told her about it, and she absolutely blew her top. She said that they should not even bother stopping by. And if they do, they can pay a normal motel rate.

You see... the church means more to these parents than their family does. The church claims to be family first -unless that family isn't what you are- a faithful member of the LDS Church.

The reason I believe this is manipulation is because the parents have been manipulated into thinking they are doing the right thing by putting the church first. Is this fair to them? The actual members of the church who pay their dues and attend the millions of meetings every month? Is it fair to their grandkids who will only know that the church meant more to their grandpa and grandma than they did?

I particularly loathe the "hey buddy" shoulder/back affection, where the garment inspector pats you on the shoulder, or goes for an arm-over-the-shoulder manuever to see if he can feel garment seams. It's spooky, and just plain *wrong*.

Is this manipulation?


You see, the member that checks for garments isn't only doing just that... nope. He's keeping the other person in check. He's basically saying, "Gee, you don't have garments on... hmmm... what kind of sin have you committed? Why aren't you wearing them? I'll pray for you and tell everyone I know to do the same."

In my humble opinion, they are trying to use guilt and shame to get the ex-member back into a church pew on Sunday.

I will leave you with this list of quotes that TBM friends and family members said to one couple as they were leaving the church. It's amazing.

Mother1: "I can't believe how bad you turned out."

Mother2: "Shame on you! You should know better than that!"

Brother: "Don't try explaining, there's no excuse for leaving and you'll never convince me."

Brother in Law1: "You bastard. You've deceived our sister with your anti-mormon lies."

Brother in Law2: "I can't believe how stupid you are."

Sister in Law1: "I pray you come back before God punishes you."

Sister in Law2: "How can you betray your family like this?"

Father in Law: "Well, I don't know if the church is true or not, but I have a lot of friends there."

Mother in Law: "So what commandment couldn't you live?"

Missionary after I closed the door: "You still know it's true!"

TBM Friend: "I'm so dissapointed in you. What's wrong with you?"

TBM Friend: "I don't believe any of those anti-mormon lies. The Book of Mormon is true and that makes the church true - don't make excuses."

TBM Friend: "Well, I've had too many spiritual experiences with the Book of Mormon to ever deny it."

TBM Friend: "When things get really hard in your life, you'll come back. I hope it doesn't take a tragedy to get you to repent."

When I originally posted this message, I got a lot of responses. Here's a collection of what other people heard from their TBM friends and relatives:

"I have heard you criticize and find fault with the Church so you can justify your decision to leave and this makes me very sad."

"What happened? I am disappointed in you!!"

"I hoped that by experiencing other Christian beliefs you would seek to gain a stronger testimony of the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ like I had done."

"My testimony of the Gospel has been challenged more than you will ever know, and I have stayed true to faith."

"I am deeply saddened that you have caved to the beliefs of man."

"You can go to some feel good Christian church as long as you want, but this church will never provide you with blessings of the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ"

"You have no clue how much you have hurt mom/dad with your decision to leave the Church. How can you throw away everything she/he taught you like this?"

"Did you ever think just once what impact your decision would have upon ______?"

"I do not know about you, but I am choosing to Honor My Parents by staying true to the principles of Gospel Of Jesus Christ that we were taught as youth."

"How can you throw your missions away like this?"

"You may betray the truth but I will not."

"I hope you get your act together before your youngest child turns 8, as it would be a real shame for your children to grow up without the light of the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ in their lives."

"I would gladly come and baptize ______ if _______ was given the opportunity to learn about the Church. I have seen a change for the worse in _____ countenance and this is really upsetting to me."

"It is clear that you blame the Church for much of your problems and you figure that by running away from the Church your problems will go away!! They may go away for a little while but they will be back. The easy way out is just that - the easy way out."

"I was pretty shocked when we visited you and when we said we were going to the Temple and I asked if you had seen it yet you said no."

"You now know how I feel. I will not say what I have just said again. You will be very upset with me with for the things I have just said! They are the truth and sometimes the truth hurts."

"You will probably find fault with me for telling you how it is."

"Those Mormons really attack you when you leave the church..etc...etc....blah, blah, blah." Get over it."

"Please do not try to explain to me why you left the Church, because there is no good reason to leave."

"You can call it the "Mormon Belief System," "Mormonism," or whatever you like. I will tell you what it is: It is The Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ!"

"You used to have such a SWEET spirit."

"How can you forget all the Lord has blessed you with?"

"You know what I pray for? That you'll come back to the Church."

"Your leaving the church has strenghthened our testimonies."

"If you don't have what it takes to live the Gospel, you should at least take your daughter to Church so that she can know the truth. She shouldn't suffer for your sake."

"Have your husband reread section 88 of the Doctrine and Covenants, because the sin on his head for leaving the Church as a priesthood holder is greater."

"Can we still send the HT and VT to your home?"

"What are you going to do someday when you are dead and standing before the Lord and he asks: "Why did you persecute my Church?""

"This is the worst possible thing you could have done."

"But, if it weren't for the church, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN BORN!"

"I read all the anti-mormon literature too, and came to the opposite conclusion as you. I know obedience to authority is a key part of God's plan."

"That's not what the Church teaches!"

Stake President: (Hand raised to the square) "I declare in the name of Jesus Christ that this church is true."

Bishop: "When I find myself out of synch with the prophet, it means I have to change."

"Remember the warning, "Why do the women have to veil their faces during the "true order" of prayer, while the men do not? Aren't the symbolic and theological implications of this huge -- suggesting that women have a less direct link to the Mormon god than men do?'God will NOT be mocked'?"

"Your (deceased) mother/father would be so dissappointed that you are not raising your children in the church."

"You'll come back after you know what it feels like without the spirit"

"You knew it was true! You said it many times, so don't deny your testimony now."

"I have seen a decline in your general character."

"You've lost the light of Christ"

"You're so much angrier now that you want to leave the church"

"You're going to perdition because you had a full knowledge of the gospel and you're rejecting it."

"I hope I'll be allowed to come down and see you after we die."

"We believe in eternal families...that is what grandpa taught."

"I hope you rot in your lonely miserable apartment!"

"You know what you are doing is wrong!"

"But you've been through the temple!"

"So, are you going to start drinking?"

"If you don't believe it anymore then you have no business talking about it."

"I'll pray for you and hope you'll do the same for me."

"You're just pretending not to believe so that you can sin."

"Look in the mirror - can't you see how ugly you are?"

"Something terrible must have happened on your mission."

"You're like a fish in the ocean who sticks his head up and say "Where's all the water?" You've been surrounded by the Spirit your whole life. You just don't recognize it."

"You were a valiant spirit in the pre-existence. Satan knows that. So he's fighting especially hard to get your soul.

"It's so sad to see your children growing up without the Church."

"I wish I cold come back when I die and tell you the truth, but I don't think it works that way."

"You realize of course that there won't be a place for you at Jesus' table?"

"There won't be any oil in YOUR lamp, when the time comes!"

"I'm sure that those who leave the church won't become sons of perdition because they didn't really understand the gospel. Anyone who really understood would never deny it."

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Posted by: Andee / Category: , ,

I was alerted to this wonderful collection of photos on Facebook and I had to share a couple of my favorites. They are hilarious. I hope the owner of the shots doesn't mind... :>

These are signs seen primarily at Tea Party Protests.

They all feature "creative" spelling or grammar.

This new dialect of the English language shall be known as "Teabonics."

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BYU student arrested for attempted kidnapping, assault

Posted by: Andee / Category: , , , ,

All emphasis is mine...

Janice Peterson - Daily Herald

PROVO -- A Brigham Young University student was arrested on attempted kidnapping and assault charges Thursday after he allegedly used a stun gun on a woman and tried to handcuff her.

Police say Stetson Hallam, 20, was the 19-year-old woman's home teacher in their LDS ward, and the two lived in the same apartment complex south of BYU. Provo police Sgt. Mark Crosby said Hallam had pursued the woman romantically, but she did not have any interest in him. He was persistent in trying to date her, Crosby said, to the point where she felt "creeped out" by Hallam.

Look at this sleeze-ball! He was called to be a home teacher by his bishop and fell in love with a woman. He probably felt the spirit telling him that they were destined to be together for eternity. What do you want to bet? After all, he's a priesthood holder and he can get promptings from God, right?

Where was the spirit warning this woman that she needed to GTF away from this weirdo? Where was the spirit when he was "called by God" to be her home teacher? What kind of promptings did this asshole's bishop get when he called this guy for this position, and who did he get these promptings from??

According to a police affidavit, Hallam repeatedly contacted the woman, telling her he had a gift for her. She put off meeting with Hallam until she could have a roommate present, police say, and she was successful until Tuesday.

Around 3 p.m. that day, Hallam contacted the woman and asked to meet with her, according to the affidavit. She reportedly told him she could not because she would be working until 9:30 p.m., and she said he could leave the gift at her apartment. However, when she arrived at her apartment complex, she saw Hallam standing outside and felt he was waiting for her, according to the affidavit. She went to her apartment through a side entrance, but allegedly found Hallam waiting for her at her door.

Hallam allegedly convinced the woman to come with him to a common laundry room in the basement of the complex, where he told her one of his roommates had helped him set up a scavenger hunt for the woman's gift. The woman reportedly told police she could see no signs of other people present and became suspicious.

Gifts from home teachers are nothing new. They are usually little cards or photos of Jesus with candy attached, or bags of candy with scripture verses from the Book of Mormon... even the scavenger hunt thing is believable. When I was in young womens, this was promoted as just a good time with a healthy interaction between the young men and women. However, these are grown ass adults. A scavenger hunt? This is BYU for you... stunting the ability for these people to grow up!

I have had home teachers and even an over zealous young women's leader wait for me at my place until I got home from work back in the day. It was creepy.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming Mormonism for this guy's behavior... but I do think that the woman was too lenient on the man because of their religion. You will see why in a minute...

According to the affidavit, Hallam told the woman the gift was "junk art" and was located in a bin underneath a table in the room. The woman reportedly described the bin to police as five feet long by two feet wide and three feet tall, with a lockable lid and handles. Hallam reportedly told the woman some of her gift was Easter candy, which he had left in his car. He then allegedly left the room, during which time the woman did not approach the bin, believing it may be part of a practical joke, according to police.

When Hallam returned, he allegedly encouraged the woman to open the bin and pulled it out from under the table to alleviate her fear, according to the affidavit. The woman then reportedly opened the bin and found it to be empty.

At this point, Hallam allegedly produced a stun gun, a handheld rectangular device with two metal prongs on the end. He allegedly pressed the device against the woman's arm and she felt a surge pass through her body, according to the affidavit. Police say the surge incapacitated the woman and caused her to collapse to the floor, at which point Hallam pinned her to the ground.

Hmmm.... interesting, isn't it?

Seriously... my intuition would have been screaming at me to get the fuck out of there and she let him in? She went to the laundry room? She opened the box?

I'm not trying to poke fun at her or even claim that she was stupid... I can't imagine the terror she was going through at the moment. Please don't think I'm trying to be cold and mean. I'm just trying to make the point that the spirit wasn't really protecting her that day... was it?

The woman reportedly became frightened for her life and did not know what Hallam's true intentions were, according to the affidavit. She allegedly began screaming and fighting Hallam, who police say placed his hand over her mouth. He also allegedly produced a pair of handcuffs and put one of the rings on the woman's left hand. While he was applying the handcuffs, police say, Hallam's hand slipped and his finger went into the woman's mouth. She allegedly bit down on his finger until he let her go and apologized, claiming it was all an April Fool's joke.

The woman was able to get away and reported the incident to police April 8, according to police. Crosby said he did not know why the report was delayed, but a delay is common with this type of allegations. When she reported the incident, burn marks were still visible on her arm, as was bruising on her wrist, Crosby said.

"Several days later, we're still able to have signs," he said.

Police conducted a search on Hallam's room and car late Thursday night, but Crosby said he does not know what was found. Crosby said police were interested in finding the bin the girl described, which was not an item usually found in the laundry room. Although Crosby said Hallam never tried to force the woman into the bin or trick her into getting inside, he said it is still an important piece of evidence given the circumstances.

I would love to know why she didn't report the incident when it happened... did she go to her bishop first? Did she talk about it with friends or other leaders at either church or BYU? Did they ask her to delay the reporting?

I could be wrong here... but they have done this sort of thing in regards to other criminal behavior before. Especially when it includes sexual crimes and priesthood holders. Scout leaders, bishops, and others were given a "repent and all is well," free pass. Were they trying to help this guy?

"His whole premise was wanting her to open that box," he said.

Hallam was arrested Thursday night and booked into the Utah County Jail, where he is being held on a $5,000 bond on third-degree felony charges of aggravated assault and attempted kidnapping. According to the affidavit, police found a bite mark on the middle finger of Hallam's left hand.

Crosby said police are interviewing Hallam's roommates, but are uncertain which roommate he may have been referring to with the scavenger hunt because Hallam would not speak with police.

"He's not cooperating with us," Crosby said.

Crosby said Hallam does not appear to have any criminal history, and police have found no evidence so far of any history of mental illness.

"That's something that we're going to follow up on," he said.

Carri Jenkins, spokeswoman for BYU, said she had little information about the incident Friday. However, she confirmed that Hallam is a sophomore at the university. She said the university's Honor Code Office will now begin its own review of the incident to determine what actions should be taken. If it is determined that a person is a danger to the community, he or she may be banned from campus, but Jenkins said she does not know what decision will be made in this case.

"Every case is handled on an individual basis," she said.

He was arrested for aggrivated assault and attempted kidnapping. If the police have grounds to arrest him and hold him on bond, what other kinds of evidence do you need to know he broke the fucking honor code?

Come on!

The guy is a menace who was probably planning on kidnapping that woman and taking her away in that ridiculous box of his!

Yes, lets pray on it and make sure we are making the right decision. We need to make sure he's a real danger to the Lord's University before booting his ass off campus... after all, he's a priesthood holder, right?

Personally, I'd like to find him and wipe that smug look off his face... unfortunately for me, I have too much self control for that kind of thing... something he might want to google and do research on: self control.

What a mess.

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How Did So Many Republicans End Up Believing Falsehoods About Obama?

Posted by: Andee / Category: , , ,

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He Has Raisin

Posted by: Andee / Category: , , ,

Happy Easter everyone...


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Temple Weddings

Posted by: Andee / Category: , , ,

Cheryl Evans/The Arizona Republic

You Should Read This...

Temple Wedding Off Limits to Non-Mormon Family

This perfectly illustrates the pain that families go through when it comes to temple weddings. The belief that a loving God would ask true believers to do this to their families? I won't ever understand it... and I had a problem with it even in my most believing of days.

I hope this petition grows. I'm gonna sign it.

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