Questions to Believing Mormons about the FLDS and Polygamy
Posted by: Andee / Category: Church, Mormon
I can't take credit for this, someone by the name of JW the Inquizzinator on the Recovery from Mormonism Forum created this list. I sincerely hope he doesn't mind me sharing the questions, because I thought they were fantastic! My own comments will be italicized.
1) Where did those FLDS folks learn such doctrine anyway?
They learned it from Joseph Smith and his so-called revelation. Joseph claimed that an angel with a flaming sword came down and commanded him to practice polygamy or he would have been killed. Does that sound like a revelation from God to you? It certainly doesn't to me.
It had nothing to do with there being more women than men (never happened) and it certainly had nothing to do with the women needing someone to take care of them. Many polygamist wives lived on their own with their children and saw their husbands occasionally... they actually received very little help and assistance from them.
2) So what is it about the FLDS model of worship/religion that upsets you? [follow a prophet, modern day revelation, priesthood powers...etc
The FLDS are simply practicing what Joseph Smith and Brigham Young taught. Period. Why is it that so many Mormons talk so wonderfully about these former "prophets" yet put down the FLDS for their beliefs? Why is it so easy to believe Joseph Smith, but not Warren Jeffs?
3) Do you believe in eternal polygamy? Is there a difference between earthly polygamy and eternal polygamy?
Polygamy is practiced in the Celestial Kingdom. Every Mormon knows this. The worthy priesthood holding husband will have multiple wives so he can create "spirit children" to populate his new planet. Mormons believe men will become Gods, and that God was once a man like them. Gordon B. Hinkley claimed that this wasn't taught, and that it was more of a couplet, and he mentioned that it wasn't emphasized. That is simply untrue. Many people found that claim of the former to be an outright lie, and started them on their research out of the church.
Why is it okay to practice this in heaven, and not on earth? Sounds rather silly to me.
4) If the prophet of the LDS church said earthly polygamy was approved again [via revelation] would you "follow the prophet"?
I would love for believing Mormons to answer this question for me. Especially the women. Would you be willing to share your husband with other women? Do you realize that when you get to the Celestial Kingdom that you will have no choice in the matter? Is that supposed to be some kind of reward?
Give me a break.
5) If FLDS polygamists are breaking the laws of the land today, are they doing something different than LDS "pioneers" that violated US Territorial [or Illinois State] law in the 1800s?
Most believing Mormons today assume that their leaders in the past would have never knowingly broken the law. Sadly, they are mistaken. Many church leaders were taken into custody and jailed for practicing polygamy, and they went back to their many wives and went on with the practice knowing full and well they were still breaking the law.
Polygamy was NEVER legal. Never.
6) How are FLDS women's place/role in their society different than LDS women's place/role in LDS society?
This is a really good point. While the mainstream church is trying hard to tell people that women have as much rights as men, they simply don't. Women are simply wives and mothers. It's what I was taught as a teenager in the Young Women's program, and many girls hear it over and over again... making it seem like it's what they want for themselves.
I always say here that being a wife and mother is noble. Please don't get me wrong. I just don't believe that many LDS women get to actually make that choice for themselves... the choice is made for them. It masquerades as personal desire, because they are pushed to believe it from day one.
7) How is 2008 FLDS society different than 1860 Utah society [other than some technologies]?
Another good point.
The FLDS groups are living the lives that early Mormons led. Young girls getting married to older men, sometimes relatives, was common in early Mormonism. Believing Mormons make excuses for the early priesthood holders by claiming it was asked of them by God, but you could use the same excuse for the FLDS.
Why are we making excuses for one group of people but not the other? Because that is how the church wants it.
What happened in early Mormonism was wrong. Polygamy was never a revelation from God, and God would certainly never ask Joseph Smith to marry two 14 year old girls. Joseph actually told them to marry him or they and their families would go to hell. How in the world can you make excuses for a man that would do that?
I didn't share all of the questions, so if you would like to see the rest click on the photo or any of the links provided at the top of the article. Thanks as always for reading...
-Sydney
May 25, 2008 at 3:01 PM
Hello Sidney love,
Joseph Smith is and was the biggest twisted polygamist rapist of them all,because he started polygamy in the americus.
And warren jeffs was just as evil also.
So you see Sydney a whole bunch of jolly polygamist pirates on the same ship,who need to be thrown over board into the laws of justice.
Just like my former mormon bishop who comitted incest and who also is a polygamist adulterer at heart and in deeds.
So you see flds and main stream mormons are a whole bunch of rottens apples in the same barrel.
Because every one who partake of the mormon fruit,is left broken,sick or abused.
Which lets us all know that the roots and founadation of mormonism is evil and vile.
Because look at all the corrupted fruit that the mormon cult has and still is producing,it is quite bitter and appauling.
It is time every one knew the truth about how evil mormonism really is,because Jesus Christ said you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.
because when you love someone Sydney we must tell them the truth,because that is their way to freedom the whole truth and nothing but the truth my friend.
No matter how happy they may seem,it is all a facade,because there can be no happiness living in the darkness and also living a lie,so all those mormon friends of yours need to know that it's a lie,and that the mormon cult is not true,because after all syd when we love some one we must tell them the truth,no matter how hard it is for them to handle,because it is going to benefit and liberate them in the end.
May 25, 2008 at 5:11 PM
Hello there donangelo,
Joseph Smith and Warren Jeffs are exactly the same. The only difference between the two is the time in which they were born. Both found a way to make people believe they talked with and for God, and both used that charisma to get them anything they wanted, and they didn't care much of who they hurt in the process.
I know you like to use the word evil, and I might be willing to use it... but I don't like to. I think they were egotistical, and felt they could not be stopped. I truly believe they were (are) mentally ill. They believe their own hype.
I agree it's all a facade, and that people should know the truth. However, we have to be careful in how we approach the situation. If we use words like "evil" we will be written off. They won't listed to us, because they would never associate the word evil with their beloved church. In my opinion, the best thing to do is to be here when people have questions (and they all will eventually) and to be here FOR them.
If I am too forceful with them, I will be labeled an anti-Mormon, and I will be ignored. No one would listen to me. That is not what I want, nor is it who I am.
I think it's best to remember that people in the church FIND the good in the bad. They convince themselves that they will understand the things that bother them in the afterlife, and that they won't be bothered with polygamy in the celestial kingdom. They are so indoctrinated that they believe it...
May 27, 2008 at 8:22 PM
If you see no difference between Joseph Smith and Warren Jeffs then you have obviously not done your homework by spending time in their writings.
You are welcome to believe what you will about Joseph Smith and polygamy, I agree that it is an all-or-nothing doctrine in being able to accept Joseph Smith as a prophet of God, but it is oh so much more complicated than you make it appear.
I'm sorry if you felt indoctrinated or forced to believe anything but such force is completely against the theology of Mormonism even if your particular young women's president felt the need to push her personal views on you.
Bear in mind that neither Mormonism nor Joseph Smith are on trial here, only each one of us.
May 27, 2008 at 8:38 PM
David,
If you see difference in them, you obviously have no idea about what I am talking about!!
Both of these men claimed to be prophets of God. They both married underage women (forcing them to do so by telling them they and their families would go to hell if they didn't).
You are correct in saying that it is an all or nothing doctrine, and I have a hard time understanding how you might be able to accept it. God wouldn't ask someone to do that... Joseph Smith lied to his own wife for a very long time to keep polygamy a secret, and once he admitted to it, he claimed an angel of God made him do it or he would be killed with a flaming sword.
Come. On.
If you can simply accept that version of events, fine... but others find reason to investigate the claim.
I am not trying to make anything appear uncomplicated, I am stating how I feel about it. It makes no sense. None.
As for the comment about you being sorry I felt indoctrinated, I don't buy it. You are not sorry, you are defending the very doctrine I am talking about...
My young woman's president didn't push her personal beliefs at me... she pushed the church's beliefs at me. We all know this. Well, I do. You might not completely understand because you are not a girl, and you have never been at these girl camps and activities to see what happens first hand.
Joseph Smith and Mormonism are on trial here... that is what this blog is about.
May 27, 2008 at 8:45 PM
David, I would also like to add that Warren Jeffs got his polygamy doctrine from Joseph Smith. How can you defend Joseph Smith and not Warren Jeffs (or the other way around)?
You didn't exactly answer any of the questions that were asked in the article, you glanced right over them and told me I was just indoctrinated.
Since you are obviously a believing Mormon, you must accept that polygamy will be practiced in the Celestial kingdom. How does your wife feel about that (if you are married) and what would you do if Monson claimed revelation told him to practice polygamy on earth again? Really, what would you do? Would you believe it? I doubt it. I really do.
The two groups of people (FLDS in present day and LDS in the 1860's) are nearly identical. Again, you defend Joseph Smith's actions, but not Warren Jeffs?
Do you see what I am trying to say here?