Watch These, too!

Posted by: Andee / Category: ,

I don't think that she wrote all these, or made the videos herself. I could be wrong, but I think there are people helping her behind the scenes (not that there is anything wrong with that).

Anyway, I like these videos, and wanted to share them.


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Posted by: Andee / Category: , , ,

I have been doing a lot of thinking about revelation. What I had been taught in the past compared to what I believe now. Most people assume that they wouldn't receive revelation that came from anywhere except for God... especially when these people are members of the Mormon Church and they follow the revelation their leaders give them. How many times have these revelations been wrong? More than anyone will ever know... but you don't hear about those... do you? Many of the examples come from this source...


In D&C 84 (esp. vs.2-5, 31, 114-115), Smith prophesied in 1832 that a temple would be built by the generation then living in Independence, MO. during THAT generation. Allowing the widest possible latitude of 100 years for a generation, that still leaves the prophecy unfulfilled over 50 years late!

There still is no temple in Independence; although one is being commenced by the RLDS Church, a splinter off of Mormonism which the LDS church contends is a false cult! Not only that, the temple lot which Joseph Smith dedicated as the "only true site" has been owned for generations by a third Mormon splinter sect; and the Utah Mormons couldn't build a temple there if they wanted to!


In D&C 124.56-60, Smith prophesied that the Nauvoo House in Nauvoo, IL. would be in his family forever (1841). It did not remain in his family, and is not owned by them today. This makes for a very false prophecy.

There are many more as you can see if you read through that page... but these get the point across that Joseph Smith was known to give revelation that "never came to pass."

As a final example of revelation, I wanted to share something he told Oliver Cowdery and Hiram Page about their mission in Toronto to sell the copyright to the Book of Mormon. The entire mission took place due to a revelation to Joseph from God. When Mr. Cowdery and Mr. Page returned confused that they had failed, they asked Joseph Smith why his revelation was incorrect... this is what Joseph had to say:

"Some revelations are of God: some revelations are of man: and some revelations are of the devil…When a man enquires of the Lord concerning a matter, if he is deceived by his own carnal desires, and is in error, he will receive an answer according to his erring heart, but it will not be a revelation from the Lord." (David Whitmer, An Address to All Believers in Christ, p. 31)

If Joseph Smith can't tell if he is receiving revelation from God or the devil, how can we trust anything he has ever said or done? How do you tell?

The reason I ask is because I recently read "Under the Banner of Heaven," by John Krakauer. Here is a small passage from the book I hope Mr. Krakauer doesn't mind...

"Ron had received a revelation from God that these lives were to be taken. I was the one who was supposed to do it. And if God wants something to be done, it will be done. You don't want to offend Him by refusing to do His work." -Dan Lafferty

So, what was the revelation Ron received?

On July 24, 1984, shortly after noon, Ron Lafferty, Dan Lafferty and two drifters traveling with them drove to the apartment of their youngest brother Allen.

Inside the brick duplex he found his fifteen month old niece, Erica, standing in her crib, smiling up at him.
"I spoke to her for a minute," Lafferty recalls. "I told her, 'I'm not sure what this is all about, but apparently it's God's will that you leave this world; perhaps we can talk about it later.'" And then he ended her life with a ten-inch boning knife.

After dispatching Erica, he calmly walked into the kitchen and used the same knife to kill the baby's mother. Now, seventeen years after committing these two murders, he insists, very convincingly, that he never felt any regret for the deed, or shame.

We all know that God would never command someone to kill a 15 month old, just like God would never want the mountain meadows massacre to happen or polygamy (with 14 year old girls). Yet the Lafferty's believe that they received revelation from God for this to happen.

Again, how do you trust anything you have revealed to you in this manner?

What if the entire word of wisdom thing was just Satan messing with you? Hahaha...


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Hmmm... Which One?

Posted by: Andee / Category: ,

Someone pointed out this website to me that has tons of non-religious stickers and magnets. I fell in love with some of the sayings, and I wanted to share them. Lucky for me, this is my blog and I can do what I want... right?

I think I will take turns making each of these my tag-line...

God Loves You! ...some restrictions apply

Jesus would slap the shit out of you.

God was my copilot but then we crashed in the mountains and I had to eat him.

May God be with you on your noble quest for a clue.

If going to church makes you a Christian, going to the garage should make you a car.

Heck is for people who don't believe in Gosh.

The people who don't believe in evoloution are the people who need it the most.

Jesus called... he wants his religion back.

Thou shalt not shove your religion down my throat.

What if the universe is really run by a crazy old guy named Gus?

God spoke to me last night. Couldn't understand a fucking word.

It's your hell, you burn in it.

Jesus loves you. Everyone else thinks you're an asshole.

Sorry, I do not dispense spiritual enlightenment without sexual compensation.

If you talk to God you're spiritual. If he talks back, you're nuts.

Never say "Things couldn't get any worse." God takes that as a personal challenge.

Let not thy religion getteth in my face.

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You Should Watch This...

Posted by: Andee / Category: , , ,

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Quick Random Thought....

Posted by: Andee / Category: , ,

Can I just say... can I just point out... how weird it is that men and women have different meetings in the church?

Why would God separate men from women and teach them different things?

Why can't everyone learn the same stuff?

Sexist much?

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Black Friday

Posted by: Andee / Category: ,

Today was a day I have been dreading all year long.

*Cue the Jaws theme music*
*Dramatic Theater lighting*
*Soundtrack of random screams of terror*

Black Friday.

Yes, my friends, today is the day that all normal people turn into greedy, materialistic, sale-hounds. They wake up at 2 am, put on their combat clothes, and line up at the store of their choice to fight, kick, scream and yell in order to get the "best deal."

These people don't care who they hurt, or who they trample on, as long as little Susie gets her High School Musical crap under the tree.

We all remember the Cabbage Patch Doll craze that turned into the Furby craze... lets not forget the people who shelled out hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars for Tickle-Me-Elmo dolls. There were fist fights, stabbings, and threats made over a vibrating red doll. Stupidity.

Black friday is an all-out tradition for some families. I have see it. After the turkey is digested, the dishes are done, the football games watched, there are women who gather at the dining room table with their sisters and mothers and plan their attack. These women make lists, determine the order of importance, and they map out their entire day... on maps... that make homemade maps with arrows and red X's.

Don't let their appearance mislead you. They might look like the kind relief society woman you sit next to in church, but she has morphed into a different version of herself... a more sinister, cutthroat, driven and insane woman who wouldn't think twice about tripping or knocking your lights out if you have what she wants. These people use cell phones like walkie-talkies. They use code words.

Every year I stand back in amazement and watch the circus. Each year I am shocked and I believe I have seen it all, only to find myself shaking my head an hour later.

It's just material things, people! It's just "stuff!"

As you can imagine, I have had an eventful day.

When the doors opening at the store this morning (nope, not telling you where I work in case some crazy-nutcase with a temple garment complex wants to rid the earth of me) there was a mad dash for certain areas of the store... as if we would run out of merchandise in the first few hours of business.

Come on now.

Chill the Hell out.

They love the frenzy, the chase, the hunt. It's like a game to some of them... to see how much they can get the girl behind the customer service desk (yours truly) to lower the price.

"I'm sorry, ma'am. That item is already discounted."
"Sir, that isn't a scratch... I can wipe that mark off with my finger... see?"
"I will be happy to contact my supervisor for you, but that item is not on sale. Sorry."

Today I have been called lazy (because I can't leave the customer service desk to take some old fart across the store and show him he read the wrong damn price), stupid (because they didn't get what they wanted) and rude.

Tonight, I take a deep breath and have some leftover pie in celebration that I will not have to deal with this stupidity again for another year!


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People are Noticing...

Posted by: Andee / Category: , , ,

Check out these articles about the state of California investigating the role the Mormon Church had in the passing of Proposition 8...

San Francisco Gate
USA Today
AOL News

It's a good thing that the church is being investigated. I don't think much will come from the investigation, because the church is extremely wealthy and can pretty much buy their way out of anything, but at least people are taking notice.

Any religion that puts so much money toward something like this should lose it's tax-exempt status. They crossed the line, and so did the Catholic Church (among others). If you want to practice your religion, fine. I am not going to stop you.

Just don't force your religious crap on me or anyone else.


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Posted by: Andee / Category: ,

I have mentioned this comic before, but I really like this one...

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Posted by: Andee / Category: , ,

One question...


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Things To Be Thankful For

Posted by: Andee / Category:

Happy Thanksgiving my friends!

I thought I should share a list of things I am thankful for, and share them with some of the people who mean the world to me (yep, it's you guys!).

  • My Mom, who didn't hate my guts when I told her I was questioning our religion and who ended up resigning before I did. You Go Mom!
  • My Brother
  • My kitty cats, Abbey Road, Spooky Bear, and Buddha Belly. They have showered me with love, made me smile with their cat antics, and begged me for kitty treats. I love them.
Buddha Belly

Spooky Bear

Abbey Road

  • I am thankful for Bishop Higgins and the sexy nurse uniform anonymous poster.
  • It's Egg Nog Season!!
  • My "followers"
  • My apartment
  • Water
  • Food
  • Clothing
  • The internet
  • Cake Wrecks

  • I am thankful I didn't burn down the house during my attempt at Thanksgiving pie.
  • My Camera

  • The ASPCA and the amazing work they do
  • Craig (still meeting for coffee one day, right?)
  • The Earth
  • My health
  • The people who make Temptations Cat Treats (my animals wouldn't love me as much without you and your "kitty crack.")
  • and the amazing people who stood up to the Mormon Church's position in the Proposition 8 battle in California by writing letters, signing petitions, and hand delivering those to church headquarters. We couldn't have done that without you.

  • Most of all, I am thankful to be me. For the first time in my life, I am comfortable in my own skin. I don't beat myself up because I didn't follow the Mormon plan. I am proud of my studies, proud of my blog, and content in life. That couldn't be possible without everyone else.
  • I am thankful for you, and hope have a wonderful year ahead.

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The Missionaries Were Here!

Posted by: Andee / Category: , , , ,

I was putting the finishing touches on my peach and cherry pies before they went into the oven. I heard a knock at my door. I knew it wasn't my Mom... I wasn't expecting her for a couple of hours. I had no idea who it was.

I went to the door and looked through the peep-hole to see two men standing and talking with each other. One had a purple shirt, the other red, so I didn't think they were Mormons. I wasn't expecting them, and the fact that they showed up on Thanksgiving Day unannounced kind of ticked me off, so I didn't answer the door. Man in the purple shirt reached into his bag and grabbed a pamphlet of some kind in my door. After they were safely away, I opened the door to receive my mystery surprise.

This is the front page of the pamphlet:

"Would You Like to Know the Truth?"

THE truth about what? About some of the most important questions that humans have ever asked. Perhaps you have wondered about such questions as these?

"Does God really care about us?"

"Will war and suffering ever end?"

"What happens to us when we die?"

"Is there any hope for the dead?"

"How can I pray and be heard by God?"

"How can I find happiness in my life?"

Where would you look for answers to these questions? If you went to libraries or bookstores, you might find thousands of books claiming to provide the answers. Often, though, one book contradicts the other. Others seem valid at the moment but soon become outdated and are revised or replaced.

There is, however, one book that contains reliable answers. It is a book of truth. Jesus Christ said in prayer to God: "Your word is truth." (John 17:17) Today we know that Word as the Holy Bible. On the following pages, you will get a glimpse of the Bible's clear, truthful answers to the above questions."

Hmmm... I didn't know until my Mom arrived that the pamphlet was from the Jehovah's Witnesses. Super.

Here is something I noticed right away...

Look at how the beginning of the pamphlet begins... asking all the questions about God and life after death...

Now, go to and look at the front page.

Similar? Huh?

I guess it's a good way to capture someone's attention. Claiming you have the answers and everyone else is wrong.

Good thing I know better!

This Thanksgiving I have something else to be thankful for... I am thankful that I no longer feel guilty if I don't want to talk to total strangers who show up unannounced at my door on a holiday.

I am so glad I am over that!


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Comment Time!!!

Posted by: Andee / Category: , , , ,

Spooky Bear says, "These people make me tired...."

Oh Lard, I was left some real doozies today!
Lets start with Rochelle from the Mormon Temple article (see? why don't believing Mormons leave me comments anywhere else?). She said:

Andee -

you've been asked what happened that you could not leave the church alone? My question is: what have you done that you hate yourself so much?


Chell, I refuse to leave the church alone. It's lying to you and your family, hurting people, and campaigning to limit the rights of our fellow human beings. They don't DESERVE to be left alone! One day you might realize that.

Now, I would LOVE to know why you think I hate myself?


Now here is a comment from Seth R... to keep things easy to understand, my comments will be in bold, their comments will be italicized.

The missionaries were a bit underinformed on the issue, but that's no surprise.

I agree. No surprise. Especially since everyone in the Mormon Church is underinformed...
It would really be nice if the LDS Church did a better job educating people on these issues.
I agree. Everyone should know these common things about the religion they spend some much time, effort and money on.

Let's make one thing clear here - I've met just as many messed-up stupid people among atheists as I have among Mormons. I am not convinced that anyone here has any right to arrogantly declare themselves better than Mormons as a group. You people are just as smart, and just as stupid as we are. You just manifest it in different flavors.

When did I say I was better than anyone else? Thanks for pointing out my stupidity. I will now spend some time pointing out yours...

As for Joseph and polygamy - the correct answer is "I don't know." Because we really don't. But it doesn't bug me in the slightest. Marrying 14 year olds was rare enough in mid 1800s America, but it wasn't unheard of. Nor did people in that time period look at it as something particularly disgusting. People got married at that age in rural 1800s America all the time.
Have you done any research on this yourself? Or are you just taking the church's word for it. If you had done the research yourself you would know for a fact that it was UNCOMMON for a fourteen year old to marry at that time. It was hidden from people, that is the only reason they didn't throw a freaking fit. Once they did realize what Joseph Smith did, they wanted to castrate his ass. Look it up. I would love you to try and prove me wrong, because you won't be able to.

You'll note that when people were outraged with Joseph Smith, it was because he had MORE THAN ONE wife, not the age of them.

You will note that people didn't know he was marrying these 14 year old girls. It was a secret. Not even the regular Mormon public knew what he was doing until he couldn't hide it any longer. You have no idea what you are talking about...
Frankly, no one back then gave a damn what age the girls were. That was the culture of the times.

WRONG. People gave a damn when they found out. People give a damn now. I certainly give a damn.

Should God have intervened and ensured that His prophet always conducted himself in such a way as would be admirable to us today?
Yes. If God wanted people to take this church and Joseph Smith seriously, He would have stepped in immediately. The only conclusion myself and others come to is that Joseph Smith was a con artist who had money and power. Not a prophet.

Prophets are human beings. They make mistakes, they screw up their family life, they teach incorrect things. It happens.

Hmmm... nice try. Don't buy it. Never did. Prophets are prophets. Do you remember Joseph Smith as just a man, or do you remember him as a prophet? We both know the answer to that question. Claiming these men were simply "human" and giving them a free pass to commit these horrible acts is insane. If they talked with God, God would have done something about it.

The only people who believe that prophets are supposed to be spotless are brainless Evangelicals who never learned to think in shades of gray.

And atheists, who, oddly enough, seem to have been drinking the Evangelical cool-aid (like some people here).

Biblical and prophetic inerrancy is one of the most moronic doctrines Christian fundamentalists have ever inflicted upon the world. There is no such thing, the scriptures preach no such thing, and we are not, and never have been, required to believe any such thing.

I find it deeply ironic that a bunch of folks like you who claim to be so liberated and independent-minded are still obviously taking your marching orders in how to view religion from the same idiots who gave us "young earth creationism."

Of course, I imagine it makes it easier to attack religion if you limit yourself to only attacking the retarded version of it.

The only people on the planet who think a prophet is supposed to be perfect are brain dead Christian fundamentalists and the atheists who agree with them.
You have no idea how easy it is to see right through your comments. You don't have a clue. None. Maybe one day you will do the research yourself instead of spitting out what your church elders tell you to.

Next time, if you want to have conversation on my blog, I would appreciate you showing a little more respect. There is no reason to use words like "brain-dead, retarded, moronic, brainless and stupid" in civilized conversation. If you want to participate in adult conversation, act like an adult.

Till then,


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They Really Don't Know

Posted by: Andee / Category: , , ,

Today I had three conversations with missionaries on During these conversations, I will freely admit that I wasn't 100% honest about my name, or the reasons I was on asking questions. I was playing a part, trying to get the person on the other end of the computer connection to *think*.

These conversations shocked me... because I definitely know the truth now.... I have had the truth for over a year, and I have accepted it.

The people I spoke with, however, were truly living in a bubble.

They really have no idea. They don't know.

Every once in a while I have to take a step back and think, "Holy Sh*t, this has got to be one of the biggest con jobs ever..."

The fact that this "church" is still kicking and limiting the information it's members have truly blows my mind. The lie is SO BIG. There is so much money involved. There are so many people involved. Good people and bad people.

What gets to me the most is that there are people in this church in pain. Pain because they are not who the church wants them to be. They never feel as if they are good enough, they wonder why God doesn't love them as much as everyone else. They cry when their family members marry in the temple and they have to wait outside because they are not good enough. They hate themselves and suffer depression.

These are GOOD PEOPLE.

The only reason they feel that God doesn't love them, doesn't appreciate them or think they are worthy to do things like attend temple weddings is because of this church. Not because of God.

God doesn't care about what foods you eat, how much money you give your church, what kind of underwear you wear, or how many hours you spend sitting in a church building.

I suppose that is just my opinion, but there is no way that could ever change.

His love isn't conditional on all these rules the church sets out for you.

There are times when I don't know if I even believe in a God anymore. I do today. I do right now.

There has to be something? Something that started this whole thing called life? Maybe, maybe not... but a loving God loves you no matter what.

Done rambling now.


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My Chat With A Missionary

Posted by: Andee / Category: , , ,

I had some free time this morning, so I went over to and spoke with a missionary... I was transferred three times. They must be busy. I played the part of Kelly

You are speaking live with /John/, who is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Information provided in this session is to provide assistance only and is not an official statement of the Church.

Melanie: hello how may I help you?

Kelly: Hi, I have a couple questions if that is okay...?
Kelly: A good friend of mine is a Mormon, and he is trying to get me to take some lessons from Missionaries. However, I don't agree with some

of the things I have found online. I thought I could talk to you online?

Melanie: yes please do...

Kelly: Thank you.

Melanie: know that i'm talking to a few other people and it might take a moment to respond, but I'm here

Kelly: Ahh, no problem, thank you for letting me know. I thought we had a connection problem!
Kelly: Well, my first question is about polygamy. My friend, Tyler, told me that Mormons no longer practice polygamy, but I have a big problem with it anyway.

Melanie: hey Kelly, I'm going to transfer you to someone that doesn't have as many chats...they'll be able to read what we've already said...

Melanie: Has transferred you to:

Kelly: Oh, okay.

John: Has transferred you to:

Kelly: Who am I talking to?

Ryan: hi kelly how are you today?

Kelly: Good, thank you.
Kelly: How are you?
Kelly: I have some questions about the Church if that is okay with you?

Ryan: well thats good so i read from above that you had some questions on polygamy right?
Ryan: my name is ryan parker

Kelly: Yes, polygamy and other things. :)
Kelly: Polygamy is a good place to start.
Kelly: As I was getting ready to tell Melanie, my friend Tyler was telling me that Mormons no longer practice polygamy.

Ryan: im really good today
Ryan: its a good day

Kelly: However, I have a problem believing that God would command this of anyone.

Ryan: thats all ok by me
Ryan: ok shoot im here to answer

Kelly: Joseph Smith said that an angel with a flaming sword commanded him to practice polygamy or he would be destroyed? Then I found out that two of his wives were only 14? How is that possible? Why would God command that?

Ryan: sounds ok to me
Ryan: that is true

Kelly: You really believe God would command that Joseph marry two fourteen year old girls?
Kelly: I really can't wrap my head around that.

Ryan: well in all honesty im not sure exactly why god would comand it

Kelly: That makes two of us.
Kelly: I can't think of one good reason.

Ryan: but you have too remember our ways are not our ways

Kelly: What do you mean?
Kelly: I was doing some research and I have learned that it wasn't common at all for girls that young to be married. So, if Joseph Smith married them and told them god commanded it of them, shouldn't there be a good reason behind it?

Ryan: there is a scripture in the book of isaiah that talks about the way we think and god thinks

Kelly: Hmm... I found a quote, can I share it with you?

Ryan: sure

Kelly: Argh, I lost the page...

Ryan: 8 ¶ For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. this is in isaiah 55

Kelly: Give me a couple seconds :)

Ryan: thats ok

Ryan: whenever somehting comes up that i dont like or i think is off this is what i remember

Kelly: "Without any preliminaries, my father asked me if I would believe him if he told me that it was right for married men to take other wives."

"The first impulse was anger... My sensibilities were painfully touched. I felt such a sense of personal injury and displeasure; for to mention such a thing to me I thought altogether unworthy of my father, and as quick he spoke , I replied to him, short and emphatically, NO I WOULDN'T! This is the first time that I ever openly manifested anger towards him."

"Then he (my father) commenced talking seriously and reasoned and explained the principle (of polygamy) and why it was again established upon the earth, etc."

"This first interview had a similar effect to a sudden shock of a small earthquake. When he found (after the first outburst of displeasure for supposed injury) and I received it meekly, he took the first opportunity to introduce Sarah Ann to me as Joseph's Wife. This astonished me beyond measure."

"Having a great desire to be connected with the Prophet, Joseph, he (my father) offered me to him; this I afterwards learned from the Prophet's own mouth. My

father had but one Ewe Lamb, but willingly laid her upon the altar: how cruel this seemed to my mother whose heartstrings were already stretched until they were ready to snap asunder, for she had already taken Sarah Noon to wife and she thought she had made sufficient sacrifice but the Lord required more." - Helen Mar Whitney Journal, Helen Mar Autobiography, Woman's Exponent, 1880 and recently reprinted in A Woman's view

Ryan: hmmm thats an interesting quote
Ryan: are you a believer in the bible?

Kelly: She wrote that in her journal.
Kelly: Well, we are not talking about the bible, we are talking about Mormon polygamy.
Kelly: I am not trying to be rude, please don't assume that.

Ryan: oh no none taken
Ryan: im just wondering if you believe in the bible
Ryan: there is a point to it

Kelly: I have problems with the Bible.
Kelly: I don't take it literally.

Ryan: what parts?

Kelly: The killing, the God that would ask someone to kill his son, the angry God.
Kelly: I don't believe in that kind of God.
Kelly: The God I believe in is all-knowing and all-loving.
Kelly: The God in the bible sounds vengeful and hateful at times.

Ryan: do you know where it says that ?

Kelly: Not off the top of my head, no.

Ryan: im not familiar with it

Kelly: I attended church as a child, and I remember stories like that.
Kelly: It made God seem as if He were mean, just waiting for us to mess up so he could send us to Hell.

Ryan: was it abraham?

Kelly: Not sure.
Kelly: Sorry... maybe.

Ryan: because i rememer that story he told him to make him a sacrifice, but god never intended for him to be sacrificed. it was a test of faith for abraham

Kelly: The story I remember is God asking someone to kill his son in order to test his obedience. Then when the guy went to kill his son, God came down and told him he could kill an animal for sacrifice instead.
Kelly: Yeah, why in the WORLD would God do something like that?

Ryan: thats the only scripture i am really familiar with that says that

Kelly: I think thats it.

Ryan: but its ok i know where that could get confusing
Ryan: yes that would be the story of abraham and issac

Kelly: okay, that stuff bothers me.
Kelly: I don't believe God would do that.

Ryan: its a test of faith, its to prove that you really believe and trust in the lord. of course god would not have him sacrifice his only son after he promised that abraham would be a father unto all nations

Kelly: A test of faith? Sorry. I don't believe he would do it.
Kelly: No rudeness intended.

Ryan: well as i said before god has different plans for all of us, sometimes its hard. are you familiar with the story of job?

Kelly: No, but again... what does this have to do with the fact that Joseph Smith married two fourteen year olds?
Kelly: I am not trying to be mean, but the issue isn't the bible.

Ryan: none taken your ok
Ryan: well all thru ought the bible the lord commanded the prophets at the time to allow plural marriage

Kelly: Yet another reason I don't take the bible literally.
Kelly: I don't see how God would want women to be treated as less than equal.

Ryan: it goes all thruought the bible, he had a reason for having joseph smith re enact what happened then with that sort of marriage
Ryan: it is a tough thing to believe i know

Kelly: Darn skippy.
Kelly: :) I don't believe it.
Kelly: I also found some quotes by prophets (I think they are prophets in your church, I don't know much about it).

Ryan: myself i would only want one wife... if i was commanded by god i would follow but not with a willing heart
Ryan: which prophets?

Kelly: "Brethren, I want you to understand that it is not to be as it has been heretofore. The brother missionaries have been in the habit of picking out the prettiest women for themselves before they get here, and bringing on the ugly ones for us; hereafter you have to bring them all here before taking any of them, and let us all have a fair shake." - Apostle Heber C. Kimball, The Lion of the Lord, New York, 1969, pp 129-130
Kelly: Was he a prophet?
Kelly: Sorry if he wasn't...
Kelly: He is basically saying that the young men take all the beautiful women before giving the older men a chance? Women are not objects..

Ryan: yes he was but he was not involved with polygamy at all the practice of polygamy ended in the late 1800's if im correct

Kelly: Well, some of the websites I have seen say that polygamy happens in the mormon heaven?
Kelly: They said that in the Celestial Kingdom (is that heaven?) a man will have more than one wife and they will have spirit children and have their own planet of some kind?
Kelly: I read a story saying that a Mormon man and woman married, his wife sadly passed away, and he remarried. He is then going to be with both of his wives forever? Thats polygamy?

Ryan: which websites? some people are out in the world to try and decieve, so i need to know what site so i can tel you if its accurate

Kelly: Just tell me if what I said is accurate...
Kelly: Do you believe in polygamy in heaven?
Kelly: Do you believe that we become Gods and Goddesses?
Kelly: Thats bizarre to me.

Ryan: we believe that a man and woman can be sealed together for time and all eternity yes

Kelly: But can the man have more than one woman sealed to him?

Ryan: yes we also believe that if we are true and faithful thruoght this life we can recieve the same glory as god yan: yes it is true that a man can be sealed to more than one wife
Ryan: also

Kelly: Can a man have more than one woman sealed to him?
Kelly: I don't see how that isn't a belief in polygamy.

Ryan: but you have to remember that it is what god has revealed and some of the ordanances as to why

Ryan: yes a man can

Kelly: Being sealed to more than one woman is polygamy, though.

Ryan: im not exactly sure on the doctrine behind it, but it is something that can be done

Kelly: Well, if you believe that a man can have more than one wife for eternity, there is a belief in polygamy.
Kelly: I don't get it.
Kelly: Lets talk about something else...

Ryan: i guess it could be seen that way,

Kelly: I see it that way.

Ryan: in the book of exodus it talks about it
Ryan: ok sounds good

Kelly: I find it slightly offensive (please don't take personal offense to that... I don't know you and I am not trying to insult you) that I should have to share a husband in the afterlife.

Kelly: Okay, I also found that many of the past leaders of your church taught that black people were cursed by God. What happened there?

Ryan: i know how that would seem and if i were in a womans shoes i would not like it either but there is a reason behind it i just dont know it

Kelly: You wouldn't like it one bit. That much I can promise you. It's not right, it's sexist.

Ryan: well back when it was adam and eve on the earth, they had 2 sons cain and able
Ryan: the devil tempted cain to kill his brother
Ryan: when cain killed his brother the lord cursed him with a skin of blackness

Kelly: So, you think that black people are cursed?

Ryan: it was not only a curse on him but his posterity to, it was to show people what cain had done
Ryan: no, not black people today one of the men i know is black and he is an amazing person.

Kelly: Well why then and not now?

Ryan: the skin color is passed down thru the posterity as for the curse on cain it is on cain only oly his skin color passed down

Kelly: If I read one of the quotes correctly (I will try and find it) the person said that black people were cursed for not being good in the life that existed before they were born.
Kelly: Another one said that skin would get lighter if they accepted Mormonism?
Kelly: I don't believe skin color has anything to do with being good or bad, or being related to someone who is good or bad. It's science. It's simply genetics.

Ryan: the skin color would become lighter if they accepted the gospel of jesus christ

Kelly: Why would the Mormon religion teach that skin would grow lighter if they accepted the gospel? This is scientifically impossible.

Ryan: its not something that happens immidiately but it happens

Kelly: Really? Do you have proof of that?
Kelly: I have many african-american friends who go to church ever Sunday and read their bibles daily. Their skin hasn't changed, and why should it?

Ryan: in the book of mormon it talks about that, when a group of lamanites took a covenant to follow the gospel their skin became lighter that from the previous darkness they had had

Kelly: But is there any real proof of that?
Kelly: I understand you believe in the Book of Mormon, and that there are quotes of being "white and deligtsome" (which I think sounds racist) but is there real proof that skin color got lighter?
Kelly: I think all skin colors are beautiful, and I believe God feels the same way.

Ryan: yes god loves his people very much every way shape and form including skin because he looks on the inside not the outside

Kelly: "And after the flood we are told that the curse that had been pronounced upon Cain was continued through Ham's wife, as he had married a wife of that seed. And why did it pass through the flood? because it was necessary that the devil should have a representation upon the earth as well as God;..." Journal of Discourses, Vol. 22, page 304
Kelly: Why would someone who supposedly talks to God (John Taylor said that) preach something so different?

Ryan: maybe it was just a way for people to know who was a believer and who was not im not sure of the ways of god
Ryan: god told cain that he would be cursed upon this earth till the second coming

Kelly: So you *do* believe blacks are still cursed?
Kelly: Thats really racist.

Ryan: they do not cary the curse of cain upon them, they have a skin of blackness yes but they are not a cursed people

Kelly: But you just said "God told Cain that he would be cursed upon this earth until the second coming."
Kelly: This kills me.
Kelly: "Not only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness he became the father of an inferior race. A curse placed upon him and that curse has been continued through his lineage and must do so while time endures. Millions of souls have come into this world cursed with a black skin and have been denied the privilege of Priesthood and the fullness of the blessings of the Gospel. These are the descendants of Cain. Moreover, they have been made to feel their inferiority and have been separated from the rest of mankind from the beginning.... we will also hope that blessings may eventually be given to our negro brethren, for they are our brethren-children of God-not withstanding their black covering emblematical of eternal darkness. " The Way to Perfection, pages 101-102.

Ryan: yes he told cain that "he" would but his posterity would only have the color of his skin

Kelly: So, if that is the case, why didn't the church let those with dark skin hold the priesthood? Why were they punished for something Cain did?

Ryan: and black people have the priesthood today

Kelly: Yeah, I know.

Ryan: the lord has a time and purpose for everything and my guess is that the lord had a time

Kelly: Why would God punish a whole race of people for something one guy did?
Kelly: So you don't really know?
Kelly: I mean, I can't believe this stuff unless there is a really good explanation. You have no explanation besides "only God knows?"
Kelly: "That negro race, for instance, have been placed under restrictions because of their attitude in the world of spirits, few will doubt. It cannot be looked upon as just that they should be deprived of the power of the Priesthood without it being a punishment for some act, or acts, performed before they were born." The Way to Perfection, page 43.

Ryan: that quote is tallking about the pre earth life

Kelly: Yes, that quote says that ALL black people were cursed for something they did before they were even born?
Kelly: How is that the same as being cursed from Cain?

Ryan: the lord may have decided that they should be placed there because of their actions in the pre earth life

Kelly: But doesn't science pretty much prove that the closer you are to the equator the darker the pigment in your skin to protect you from the suns rays?
Kelly: Those with dark skin come from locations on earth that are close to the sun in distance.

Ryan: im afraid my time is up but let me send you to another person

Kelly: Many of my friends who happen to be african american are some of the best people I have ever known in my life. I am supposed to accept they are being punished for something because of their skin color?
Kelly: Thats okay.

Ryan: Has transferred you to:

Kelly: This church isn't for me.

John: hi Kelly

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I Wasn't Tagged, But Who Cares?

Posted by: Andee / Category:

A Photo of Spooky Bear... just because...

I was reading a friend's blog, A Never Ending Battle, and came across this survey-type-thingie and I have free time on my hands...

5 things I was doing 10 years ago (I was 18):

1. Making a huge decision between staying home with my sick father (he had cancer and died 5 months after being diagnosed) or going to school. I stayed home. I made the right decision.
2. Working two jobs.
3. Fighting with my brother (we get along great now...)
4. Collecting all things Cookie Monster (talk about a waste of money!)
5. Being extremely angry at the world.

5 things on my "To-Do" list today:

1. Clean the apartment.
2. Laundry
3. Update WindySydney
4. Order a new USB/Canon cable so I can download photos to my computer (there is nothing sadder than Andee without her camera. I am officially pathetic).
5. Relax and enjoy a day off, because Friday is going to suck at work.

5 snacks I enjoy

1. Peanut Butter M&Ms
2. 3 Musketeers Mint
3. My Mom's homemade oatmeal and butterscotch cookies (you have not lived until you have had one. My little brother used to sell them when she put them in his lunch in elementary school and he made a killing....)
4. Nachos
5. Root Bear Floats

5 things I'd do if I was a millionaire:

1. Pay off my Mom's house
2. Buy myself a house
3. Buy my brother a house
4. Open a bakery/coffee house/ bookstore (always been a dream of mine).
5. Use the money to help animals!
6. (Don't be mad... I had another one...) I would make a documentary about the church and the TRUTH, and tell the stories of people who have left. I really, really, really want to do this!

5 places I've lived:

1. Tooele, Utah
2. Dugway, Utah
3. Orlando, Florida
4. Providence, Utah
5. -----

5 jobs I've had:

1. Theater projectionist
2. Janitor (be nice to the people who clean! They are people too! I hated it when people were rude to me and treated me like crap because I cleaned up for them. Bastards!)
3. Waitress/Server/Bartender/Hostess/Food Runner/Anything else in the restaurant industry
4. Live theater stage assistant/ Team Lead/ Attractions Hostess at Universal Orlando
5. Customer Service (be nice to people if you want them to help you. If you are an asshole, we won't give a crap about your problem. Just sayin').

5 People I tag:

No one... unless you want to be tagged. If you want to be tagged, consider yourself tagged! Tag! You're it!


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Posted by: Andee / Category:

Courtesy of the Salamander Society...

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Tooele County Has A Problem...

Posted by: Andee / Category: ,

It will come as no surprise to many of my *ahem* followers that I support animal rights. I recently became a vegetarian after learning how animals are raised for slaughter, and killed in an inhumane way. It broke my heart. I will only buy eggs from cage-free animals, because they shouldn't be stuffed 6 in a small box, crammed together their entire lives unable to even flap their wings ONCE in their lifetime. It's wrong.

I have always loved animals. When I was a little kid, I would be able to go up and pet the dogs that would snarl and growl at everyone else. We just understood each other, they were not afraid of me and I wasn't afraid of them...

Yesterday afternoon a co-worker and fellow animal lover gave me a newspaper article to read. She warned me that it would upset me, and that I should try to not get too sad. I tried, but didn't succeed.

A little background... I was born and raised in Tooele County, Utah, so I feel personally tied to this problem.

In the early hours of October 31, 2008, someone broke into a family's backyard in Tooele, Utah and took their two pygmy goats from their pen. The goats, Daisy and Duke, were beloved pets of the family that owned them.

A short time later, a man heard what he thought was the sound of children crying in the field behind his house. Concerned, he called police and then drove to the field between his home and North Lake Elementary School to see if anyone needed help before police arrived. When he drove up to the scene, he saw three juveniles attacking the animals. The kids fled as the cops arrived and the police officers walked up to a very bloody scene. Daisy and Duke were both brutally beheaded. They were traced back to their owners because they had collars and tags that you would normally find on dogs and cats.

The police officers and the gentleman who called 911 cleaned up the scene long before school kids would have arrived in the area. They assume that those responsible for the cruelty wanted small kids to find the carnage they left behind.

I am thankful that the slain animals were found long before children made their way to school, or kids arrived to play on the school's playground, but the people involved in this crime need to be found and brought to justice.

The family that owned Daisy and Duke as pets have a toddler who still goes to their fridge for carrots so he can go in the backyard and feed his friends. He waddles in the backyard saying, "Bahhh!" looking for his goat pals. The family claims that they don't want the people responsible for this to be punished, they want them to get help. They are nicer than I would be if I was in their position.

Tooele County, Utah seems to have an animal cruelty problem. This isn't the only case that has made animal rights activists angry and frightened.

Skull Valley, Utah (I can't count the number of times I drove down this road... thousands...)

Back in April, nine cows were found shot to death as they were out to pasture in Skull Valley (very close to my home town). Skull Valley is literally in the middle of nowhere, and the cows were not on someone else's property... they were just existing until some jackass with a gun and too much time on his hands used them as target practice.

A week before the pygmy goat incident, a dog was shot in the head. There are no leads in that case.

Yet another dog was stabbed in the chest while momentarily out of sight from it's owner on a busy street in July.

I can't understand the complete lack of empathy towards other living creatures. I am not claiming that everyone should become vegetarians (although it would certainly change how animals are treated). I just think that as a society we shouldn't have to hear stories like this. This shouldn't happen! Ever!

Animals love, they feel pain, and they deserve better.


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Two Doozies!

Posted by: Andee / Category: , ,

this site is basically derived from all things evil

The Mormon Temple article strikes again... here are two more comments left anonymously from loving church members...

I really DO NOT like the image of LDS people that this site is painting. Are you afraid to be part of the true church? I don't quite understand how one learns all the teaching of this church and full out lies and says that LDS people are being lied to. I simply cannot comprehend on what a sad life you must be leading if you are shying away from the light that the Lord has provided you with. I am concerned for your wellbeing because you obviously don't know what you are thinking. What "research" have you come up with? lies.....

I am sorry you don't agree with the research I have done and the conclusions I have come to... guess you can just stop coming here then...

When did I lie? Thats the thing... you think I am lying, but I am not. Read the older church doctrine, talk to people about the old temple ceremonies... this isn't something I made up! This is real stuff.

It's not my fault that you want to bury your head in the sand.

No lies. None.

this site is basically derived from all things evil. i don't care about your opinion in this case because it is obviously going to be pure BASHING of the church that is true. WHY?? why have you and your friends that back you up gone so insane into thinking that research you have done has anything to do with anything. I bet if you provided me with the "esearch" that i could point out everything wrong, but you would apparently disagree because you are not open-minded, even if you say you are. i may not know you to say that, but by the things you have done with this site makes me want to make sure i don't come to know you and your "followers." where did this hatred come from?? did somebody do something to you and this is all just revenge??

All things evil? Nice. Thats a new one.

If you don't care about my opinion, I won't give a rat's ass about yours.

I am not bashing the church, I am discussing things that happen in this so-called church every freaking day!

Again, read the older church doctrine, read the journal of discourses, ask questions. There is no reason the church should hold back certain books from you, or should ask you to stay away from certain websites. They have something to hide, sweetie.

I don't have "followers."

The people I talk with on this website have their own minds, and use them frequently. I suggest you try it sometime, you might like it.


P.S. This is just because I am "evil."

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Real? Who Cares? It's Hilarious!

Posted by: Andee / Category: , , ,

Many moons ago someone gave me a link to Bishop Higgins 3rd Ward - News for Mormons. The guy who does the writing does so as if he is the bishop of the 3rd ward, but who knows (or cares) if that is true. The blog is one of the funniest things I have seen in a loooooong time.

I hope he doesn't mind me sharing the beginning of one of his posts, and forwarding more people to his wonderful sense of humor...

Starting this spring, BYU will teach a class on how to be a general authority. The class not only prepares participants in becoming general authorities, but it will also help you learn lots more scriptures, including a few about faith, and some about prayer.

Class topics with include:
1. How to select a proper necktie
2. Which shades of dark blue are appropriate for a suit
3. How to lovingly scorn sinners
4. Voice intonation
5. Avoiding loud laughter
6. Avoiding fun
7. How to read from a tele-prompter
8. Food storage myths
9. The two occasions when it's ok to swear
10. Whether or not Steve Martin is a Mormon and if not, what can we do to get him to be one.

To see the rest of this list and more from Bishop Higgins, click here!


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Posted by: Andee / Category: , , ,

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints still practices polygamy.

Oh, I know that men don't have more than one living wife at a time, but it's still plural marriage. I don't understand how more Mormon women are not upset about this.

Let's pretend a pretty young girl meets her wonderful return missionary at BYU and they have the temple marriage they all dreamed about. They had a couple kids, and after many, many years together she passes away. Her husband is now free to marry in the temple again... this means he will be sealed to more than one wife in the afterlife. Many men who marry for the second time in the Mormon Church are polygamists in the Celestial Kingdom.

What the Hell?

This is a reward for being good?

The pretty young girl who married her return missionary and did everything she was supposed to do in life now has to share him with another woman she never met for time and eternity?

This is so stupid.


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Man involved in standoff outside LDS Temple in Provo

Posted by: Andee / Category: , ,

Taken from the Deseret News... not taking any credit for this article!!

PROVO — A man who threatened to kill himself outside the LDS Temple here after being disciplined by the LDS church has been taken to the hospital for a mental-health evaluation.

Provo Police Capt. Cliff Argyle said at 11:30 p.m. Wednesday, officers responded to a suspicious incident on a grassy area south of the LDS temple at 2200 North Temple View Drive to find two men, one of whom appeared to be in distress.As the officers made contact, they realized the distressed man had a semi-automatic pistol pointed at his chest, Argyle said.The other man was trying to convince his friend to put the gun down, and officers stepped back to stay a safe distance from the .45 caliber semi-automatic gun, Argyle said.

The officers were able to contact the man on his cell phone and spent the next hour trying to convince him not to take his own life.

Argyle said the combination of the phone call and the supportive friend led the man to put the gun down. Once he did, the friend put him in a bear hug and moved him away from the pistol.

Police placed the 25-year-old man in custody and secured the gun, Argyle said. No one was injured.

The man, who police say was distraught over recent action taken against him by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, was taken to Utah Valley Regional Medical Center, Wasatch Mental Heath unit for a mental-health evaluation.

I truly hope this man is getting the help he needs, and I hope he gets as far away from this destructive church as possible.


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