Abbey says, "You have got to be kidding me..."I can't believe this! Well, I guess I can... but it pissed me off so freaking bad that I wanted to share it. Can you believe that there are bishops and counselors out there that think they have the right to treat people like this???
This is a piece of a conversation that happened on the Recovery From Mormonism website. I sincerely hope the person who wrote it doesn't mind me sharing the experience...
Okay So last week or so I posted a thread about the EPQ [Elders' quorom president] who showed up at my door and demanded to have our info and in all his penishood glory informed me that I was not allowed to turn down church visitors that it had to be my husband.I share this woman's outrage.
After that we decided as a family to start the resignation process . OF course that info has not trickled down to the local ward here that I want to point out we have NEVER attended.
I made it clear to all people who tried to contact us that we have a sick child and to not just show up at my house that we are not coming back and NOT interested.
Today while my hubby is at the hospital with our daughter getting blood for her treatment the bishopricks show up. ALL THREE!!!!!!
Okay I was outside with my kids playing with their toys. I could not believe the arrogance that they seemed to get out of the car with- one guy had a note pad for hells sake like he was some sort of cop.
Bishop introduces himself and then the other two stooges. I was so pissed I just asked what they wanted.
HE said and I quote" To be honest I want to know why you are not coming to church with your family.
I want to know why you as two return missionaries do not pay tithing. Why I see tea on your car bumper ( I was drinking a lipton green tea).
I want to know why the primary, scouts, relief society, and young women's never get so much as a response to their emails.
I want to know why you are so secretive with your phone number.
I want to know why your daughter is 14 and has never been interviewed or go to YW's" Well I just ignored him and there was this long silence that seemed to go on for hours but the one guy you can tell he must be a rookie started tying to talk to my youngest about his xmas presents.
I do not know if it is my daughter's illness that has made me so focused on how full of shit religion is or if it is just coming out of the cult that has done it but I just asked him when he looked at me waiting for an answer " DO you have a warrant?"
Can you quote me the state law that requires me to answer you?" ---again long silence.
He said "excuse me ?" I said no you are not excused - you don't even know me I have NEVER been to your ward. I do not owe you jack shit of an excuse.
I told him of our plan to resign and I let him know I felt he was totally disrespectful.
He said well here is my number have your husband call me. WHICH of course he won't.
Oh I am so upset at myself that I did not just lay into him. I had so much I wanted to say because I knew I just knew that someone was going to show up. I feel like screaming FOUL after the game!!! Has anyone ever felt like that before ?
I guess the most important thing is that we are resigning and we have in GREAT detail explained to the kids old enough to understand why we left. I even showed our 14 year old the temple video on you tube with the penalties. I do not want some smooth talking return missionary to ever sweet talk her with the "MAGIC " crap. I just bet he wants to interview our 14 year old. PERVERT!!!
I want you to know that this is the first time we have EVER met these people. WTF is this seriously why are we so important to them. They do not even know us and if they did certainly would not find us worthy to speak to.
I know it is pointless to try to make sense of them but honestly I don't get why our lack of attending in the few months we have lived here is so important. We are just one family.
Never have been that active and only held one "important calling" ever between the two of us.
MAKES NO DAMN SENSE I TELL YA!
What the hell are people like this thinking?
I know not all Mormon Bishops are asshats like this guy, but this is an example of how power and authority go to the heads of men who are not up for the challenge. Who does this guy think he is?
Again, I point out that anyone called for a position like this should have formal training on how to treat people, relate to them, and how to direct them to authorities if necessary.
Here is another topic I found upsetting:
My soon-to-be ex-wife's parents gave me the gift that just keeps on giving. The 'Shaken Faith Syndrome' book.
Signed by DW's parents and even MY parents who live out of state and haven't spoken with me since I announced I would be resigning from the LDS church.
Wife says there's still a chance for me to fix this if I'll repent, go to the Bishop with my concerns, and allow the 'spirit' back into my life.
::sigh::
I opened the package wrapped in beautiful wrapping paper to find a Smithmas card with testimonies from her parents, my parents, wifey herself, and other less-connected family members sharing about how happy the gospel has made them.
I remained silent. Everyone stared at me, awaiting some kind of spiritual intervention that would somehow manifest itself - after all, the spirit testifies of truth, right?
I was speechless. 'Have any of you read this?' I asked. 'No, no. We bought it for YOU to read.' replied my father-in-law. My mother-in-law quickly chirped, 'It has all the answers to those questions you've been thinking about.'
I grabbed my coat and keys. Left the book on a table in the dining room.
I heard my mother-in-law whisper to someone, 'Well, that's rude. He didn't even stay for dinner.'
I ignored it.
I enjoyed a quiet drive back to my home.
So, here I am at home. Writing to tell you about my wonderful Christmas present.
Dear, God.
January 9, 2009 at 2:28 PM
omg why are people so damn concerned with other peoples "salvation" Reading those two stories made me want to pull my hair out.
January 9, 2009 at 4:38 PM
I would've ripped that bishop's number up right in his face if he had the balls to come to me and talk to me that way. And I love when people buy you "gifts" that you would NEVER ask for, nor use, and are just something THEY like. How rude!
I love your kitties =)
January 9, 2009 at 10:00 PM
I don't typically pay much attention to these stories, since there's really no way to get an objective take on what happened.
The person is obviously utterly pissed off. And frankly, I don't trust angry people. Never can tell when I'm getting an accurate story, or just a venting session.
Of course, I tend to ignore faithful Mormons when they gripe about "the unfaithful" too.
So at least I'm an equal-opportunity unsympathetic person. I guess....
January 10, 2009 at 8:17 AM
Seth,
You disagree... shocking.
These people have a right to be pissed off...
If something like this happened to you, you wouldn't care? Put yourself in their position for a moment.
Andee
January 10, 2009 at 9:04 AM
I "disagree" with what? I never said I disagreed with anything.
And of course people have a right to be mad about things. Things in church and behavior of church members bother me too.
I'm just saying that I don't pay much attention to one-sided angry rants. For the simple reason that you are only getting one side of the story from a very angry person (which is the sort of person most likely to distort the facts through their own lens of rage).
Sorry, but I'm a lawyer by training.
They train us to ignore (or at least be skeptical of) angry people - because those are exactly the sort of people who are most likely to give crappy testimony in court.
I'm not trying to argue that Mormon bishops don't act like jackasses sometimes. I'm sure they do.
January 10, 2009 at 8:35 PM
What I was trying to say is that you didn't stop to realize that her anger was warranted by the way she was treated by the men who were supposedly "called by God."
Sometimes angry rants are 100% pure honesty.
Just sayin.
January 10, 2009 at 9:09 PM
Yeah, well... no way to tell, is there?
And a rant can be totally "honest" and still be objectively full of crap.
January 10, 2009 at 9:16 PM
Yeah, well... there's no real way to tell, is there?
And a rant can be totally "honest" and still be objectively full of it.
January 10, 2009 at 11:17 PM
Seth,
I get your point, really... I do.
I just wonder if you would have the same reaction if the story was written calmly. I am pretty much under the impression that you discount anything that isn't "pro-church."
I could be wrong.
It just seems that way at times.
Maybe it's because I am so used to living in Utah and having people judge me because I don't agree with them and I speak my mind. Maybe it's because I am reading the words instead of listening to the inflection of your voice.
I just usually assume that you are going to automatically disagree with the things I am saying because you are defending the church so much. I don't understand how you can defend some of the things you have defended. I have a hard time wrapping my head around it.
Just being honest.
Andee
January 10, 2009 at 11:44 PM
Yeah, and in the meantime, Seth, please don't continue to give us lawyers a bad name.
I am a lawyer, Andee, and this shit would piss me off too. I don't care if you're angry, Molly Mormon, Polly Anna, Captain Obvious, Cookie Monster or the Netherlands - some behavior is just plain wrong. Wrong, Seth.
January 11, 2009 at 12:02 AM
Just because I defend a lot of things in Mormonism doesn't mean I don't have problems with it.
I left Utah for a reason.
A few things on my list of gripes:
1. a portrayal of Church history that is so whitewashed and sterilized that some Mormons are actually surprised to learn Joseph Smith practiced polygamy. I don't think the Church is being deliberately dishonest (although I do not think they are being as forthcoming as they need to be), but it really, really, REALLY irritates me that Gospel Doctrine class is typically taught at a sixth grader level - even though most of the people in the class are supposed to be adults.
2. Equating the Republican party with true religious belief.
3. (related to #2) This stupid obsession with butt-kissing the Christian Right. I consider the Christian Right's obsession with issues like abortion, evolution, and the "war on Christmas" to be distractions from the true Gospel. It is basically issues that "moral" people can rally behind and feel righteous about without actually having to bother really doing any good in the world. I was similarly worried that Prop 8 would turn into this kind of "feel-good" issue that everyone used to feel their lives were OK even though they mistreat their children at home, or cheat at work, or even simply don't bother with their Home Teaching (even of people who actually WANT them to come by - like that lonely elderly man in the ward who otherwise doesn't get any visitors).
In short, I consider half of Focus on the Family's political agenda to be one step shy of idolatry.
4. The fact that we still don't have much resolution on who Mother in Heaven is and how we ought to regard her in our theology.
5. The fact that we've been softpedalling on doctrinal distinctives in the past decade. I'd basically like our leaders to own Joseph's King Follett Sermon and stop tiptoeing around it like it's some dirty secret.
6. We really need to stop pretending our religion has a doctrine of prophetic or scriptural inerrancy.
7. Why can't the Mormon sabbath be a "day of rest" like it is supposed to be?
8. Smug self-satisfied people who think that rattling off a bunch of standardized answers is really going to answer any questions that may be going on in the listeners. Or those who think you win an argument simply by quoting a general authority. Or people who think that "bearing testimony" is a cheap and easy way to win arguments.
So yeah, I've got my gripes. But I hang out anyway. And for better or for worse, these are my people, and this is my religion. And I am on board. You'll learn in life that the causes you join, the people you associate with, and the belief systems that inspire you are ALWAYS going to be seriously screwed up. That's true of any organization, any belief system, and any person on this entire planet you meet.
You can't go through life and keep your hands clean. That's an adolescent fantasy. Best to just roll up your sleeves and wade-in in the hopes of making a difference.
January 11, 2009 at 6:39 PM
Asked the question and I'm adding to the conversation.
I left the LDS church and you can see some of my initial blogging on In the Shadow of the Temple; not promoting myself just letting you know where I stand.
I have to agree with Seth for the most part. I have heard some whacky stories from angry exmos. It is in our nature to be right; in the right. When we find out how we were lied to and deceived by the pictures, manuals and dogma we are so hurt; so angry that we can, if we are not careful find ourselves in the same place we were before. Before we believed almost anything that came from the mouth of the 'prophet' and we were quite possibly total pains in the butt to others because of their lack of belief. After we leave, lets use the cognitive thinking that led us to leave the church. I'm not saying the story isn't true but we have to be wary of such. If it is true and we find out it is true then we can be pissed right along with the individual.
I remember how badly my anger raged at first. I could not understand how my hubby could still believe. I didn't know how I could live with his cognitive dissonance. I learned to let up and now I do not want to be guilty of falling into the dissonance trap again.
Love your blog site incidentally. A mix of fun and information. Good Job.