Spending time on PostMormon.org heals me. If I couldn't talk to my friends about what I was going through, laughing about things, and learning there I couldn't function. Okay... I could function, but my life would be a little depressing.
Today, among the various topics we were discussing some of the things we used to believe that we now consider absolute absurdity. Here are some of the examples given:
- Satan can only hear what we say and not what we think or what we write down on paper
- Satan controls the waters. Odd since that is where we do our baptisms.
- The reason he/she died was because they were needed for a special job in heaven
- He/she died because you're being tested.
- I know Jesus wants you for this calling.
- The prophet will never lead you astray.
- If you drank beer, wine, coffee, tea, Pepsi or smoked a cigarette - you were a REALLY bad person.
- Entrance to the Celestial Kingdom was based upon how often your butt sat on a pew, how much money you gave to the church, and if you could remember the secret chants, handshakes and your temple name.
- A 7 year old child can't be tempted by Satan, but apparently is filled with sins that need to be washed away at baptism by the time he/she turns 8.
- there was an all powerful man in the sky that could read my thoughts, control the weather and was concerned if I said "damn".
- Polygamy was instituted to help the poor, husband-less sisters in the West who couldn't take care of themselves otherwise.
- Polygamy was always a sacrifice for both the men and women involved, as nearly all of the women were assigned a husband and the husbands were called by Bishops to accept this calling.
- Polygamy was required in the eternities to increase the eternal increase. But, if it's eternal, can't one wife produce as many children as 1,000 throughout eternity? Is there really a difference in 1 or 1 million years to populate an Earth in eternity? What is the optimal number of wives? Is the man to spend 100% of his time copulating with women lined up in a row?
- The BoM plates, sword of Laban, etc., were actually held by the Church, but due to sacred nature, never admitted to.
- God prefers me/you dead, rather than unchaste.
- God called a person to a mission-in-the-sky whenever an untimely death occured. I could never figure out why an omnipotent God required a mother of six to help him in heaven more than her six children did on earth.
- Joseph Smith predicted the civil war
- The Garden of Eden was here in the Americas
- Mormons knew alcohol, tobacco, coffee, and tea were bad for your health before the rest of the world
- Puritans/Quakers on the moon
- When the brethren have spoken, the thinking has been done
- The internet is evil.
- TV is satan's tool.
- G's will save your life! It's like a suit of armor!
- You will be rewarded if you pay yout tithing "religiously"; so long as you do it with a happy, willful, and happy heart, other wise you won't receive a return in blessings because you did it wrong, and no you can't get your money back to "try again".
- The unrighteous in the community are the reason the "stake-special-fast-for-rain" didn't work.
- The mentally retarded were so valiant in the pre-existence, God placed them on the earth in a state where Satan couldn't tempt them.
- The Indians are turning white.
- The prophets have all seen Jesus in the temple.
- You'll be happier if you marry in the temple.
- Tea is bad for you.
- People are homosexual by personal choice or because they view pornography.
- the Masonic rituals from which the temple were stolen actually date back to the building of Solomon's Temple, but were preserved in a partially corrupted form through the ages (as if it would not have been possible to reveal it completely anew to JS unless it had been transmitted down in some form)
- newly discovered archaeological evidence supports the Book of Mormon, but the rest of the world just doesn't know how to interpret it right
March 8, 2008 at 2:54 PM
this list is funny!
dm
March 8, 2008 at 2:55 PM
did you ever go through the temple?
March 8, 2008 at 3:38 PM
Sydney,
understand this is more of a personal thing, so I don't want to write a long post. But since you are basically saying that what I believe is a bunch of rubbish, I'd like a chance to respond point by point on all these.
But again, only if you'll allow.
Nick
March 8, 2008 at 3:47 PM
You know I don't care Nick. Post away. This was just for me. *I* think these things are silly. If you believe them, fine.
March 8, 2008 at 4:21 PM
Hi I investigated the church for over two years and was shocked at the reality of what I found out.
I managed to fight off numerous continuous atempts by highly pressured brainwashed missionaries and well meaning ward members to get me baptised.
I was very active, home Teach ,wow, helping hands , 3 hour block , adult sunday school etc ..
I finally had to stop attending as any mention of Joseph Smith or Brigham Young would just make me feel angry.
I look forward to hearing about your resignation.
What about family members and church friends , How are they reacting ?
Cheers
E J
my blogsite although I don't bother with it as there are too many good ones out there.
http://latterdaylies.blogspot.com
March 8, 2008 at 4:23 PM
Good to meet you EJ, I will add your blog to my list if you don't mind. I will definitely check it out. Thanks for the good wishes, I appreciate your post.
March 10, 2008 at 10:58 PM
Sydney,
Without spending too much time on this, because this is a personal post more than anything, I want to say the following...
1 - Satan's dominion is the Sea, not water in general. I don't think I've ever heard a prophet declare stay out of the sea too. Jesus himself subdued it in the NT.
2 - Entrance to the Celestial Kingdom is tied to a number of things, but you know as well as I that you are being cynical here. Most of all, it is tied to repentance and if you approach with 'clean hands and pure hearts'.
3. A 7 year old, if you understood the scriptures as they are, is capable of doing bad things. To suggest otherwise is stupid. Of course they can be tempted. What the SCRIPTURES say is that they are innocent of that sin because of the atonement, not because they cannot.
4. I don't know what the bloody hell is wrong with saying 'damn'. That is an American Cultural thing...not a Church thing. Think outside your state...
5. Polygamy - as instituted in the D&C - was born out of a need to 'raise seed up' like in Abraham and Isaac's time. I say no more there.
6. People die. The 'softener' of 'they are required in heaven' is one used by many churches, not just ours. I for one believe that people just die...its a fact of life.
7. Quakers on the moon? A comment taken out of context and used against BY...often quoted in alot of ANTI-MORMON literature...often defended by mormon apologists...
8. I seem to recall the prophets saying the internet is a good thing and can be used for good purposes...of course, it can be used for bad too
9. I also remember Elder Ballard saying TV can be a good form of relaxation...again, also can be used for bad.
10. Garments are always the source of a good mormon myth. The Temple R interview only states that they are an outward expression of deep inward commitments to God. Myth's make them into something else.
11. Lots of people pay Tithing and prosper....I've also read tons of financial advisors which proclaim that you should set aside money to donate to voluntary organisations as it helps you save. Don't ask me why, I guess its all psychological.
12. Tea is bad for you...I've a heart condition and have been told to avoid it...my dentist also says to stay away from it.
13. Hmmm, masonic rituals - solomans temple? I actually read someone's paper once who suggested that the masonry may go all the way back to Egypt. The Pharoah certainly attempted to 'mimick' certain Israelite practices. However, the very fact that we still do certain practices which do come from a long historical heritage suggests that this is entirely possible...
14. Archaeological evidence has been found which supports the BoM. I could list loads, but you'd never listen.
Nice of you to 'inform' the public in a balanced and justified approach. Its about as one sided as Fox News.
March 11, 2008 at 5:58 PM
Nick,
You can believe whatever you want, but I certainly don't believe Satan controls the sea. You are always asking me what proof I have, so I will return the favor. What proof do you have that Satan controls the sea?
I don't believe that there are levels in heaven for people who are more righteous than others. Believe what you want, but I disagree.
I am not suggesting that 7 year olds are uncapable of doing bad things. I am saying that an 8 year old shouldn't be put in a position to decide on baptism when his/her entire family will freak out if they say no. I believe baptism is a decision that should be made by adults. I believe this for all religions, not just Mormonism.
By the way... I didn't write it, just posted it because I liked it. I *do* think outside my state as I just moved back to Utah from Orlando. It has nothing to do with Utah, as most Mormons will freak out anywhere when the word damn is used, if you haven't seen it happen sorry.
Polygamy was instituted by Joseph Smith to get away with all the affairs he was having.
I agree. People die. Certainly didn't stop many a Mormon from feeding me those lines when my Dad passed away or when my aunt lost her 11 year old daughter.
How is something in the Journal of Discources taken out of context? What context should we put that in? He was clearly stating that he believed there were quakers on the moon. Clearly!!!!
Yes, the prophets are now saying the internet is a good thing. They are asking Mormons to start their own blogs and be missionaries and defend the church. It certainly doesn't stop them from telling members not to visit those infamous "Anti" websites, does it? They tell people what they should read and where they should find their sources. Proof enough.
Tv is both good an bad.
There are plenty of myths about garments and I am happy to hear you admit that. They don't protect you from anything. It's just underwear.. uncomfortable underwear at that.
Sure, lots of people do pay tithing and prosper. There are also people who pay tithing and they don't prosper. It can go both ways. People having financial trouble should not be asked to pay tithing. Period. I will never back down from that issue. Tithing should be voluntary. Period.
There are plenty of people and studies that say tea is good for you. Go figure. I don't like tea, never have. It's just leaf-water to me.
Mormons got the temple ceremony from the Masons. I won't stray from that one either. There is too much proof.
I don't understand why you would assume I "wouldn't listen" because I have done nothing but spend time replying to the multitude of posts you make here. I am obviously listening to you, right? You are kind of out of line by saying that in my opinion.
It is nice of me to inform the public, your view of these issues would be equally as one-sided and don't deny it.
As I mentioned before, I found the article humorous to those who were on the same page as I was and I wanted to share it. Relax.
March 11, 2008 at 7:28 PM
Sydney,
1. When I say dominion, I believe 'lives in' is the more appropriate term. And there is certainly evidence from the NT which suggests that individuals like John saw Satan emerge from the Sea in his power.
2. Believe what you want, that is not what I am saying here. I am saying that entrance into the Celestial Kingdom is through repentance. You signified a number of cynical points which made it look like we count (logically) the number of times we do those things or something.
3. Baptism - dunno if we can go much further here.
4. Hmm, pardon my stupid way of writing. When I meant state, I meant State with a capital S. Meaning, think outside USA. DAMN, HELL and BLOODY are not swear words in Australia or New Zealand...or anywhere else. Mormons here use it all the time. IT IS a cultural thing...
5. Didn't know we were being told to start 'pro-mormon' blogs...sounds interesting. I think staying away from anti-mormon sites receives little attention. Its more the 90% of internet traffic which is porn related which I think the prophets are more worried about.
6. I think that is where you are wrong. The Garments do protect you in a certain way. Its more an inward thing though. I feel like when I put them on in the morning I'm reminding myself of my inward commitments and thus preparing myself for the day. That is a form of protection - remembrance.
7. Tithing is something I think you need to have a full testimony of. I don't think we can go much further here.
8. Tea - still an open book and debate at this stage I'm afraid. Personally I'm like you, never liked it before I joined the church...coffee on the other hand...haha.
9. I'm not sure we'll ever really agree on the temple and masonry. All I can say is, I've been to both, and there is alot of difference.
10. I think I missed the journal of discourses one? BY did say this, I'm not denying it. Its taken out of context when people begin quoting that quote where he said 'everything I have said you can take as scripture'. Obviously this is not the case. There are many things in the JoD which clearly are not scripture. BY's thoughts as well as the alleged JS thoughts on this are very coherent with the historicity of the moment. Everyone thought there were men on the moon. There were even scientific studies proving it. I for one believe that these men were caught up in this.
11. You obviously do listen, but perhaps you don't as well. I've written certain elements of the BoM which are just too correct to have been written by JS, but you've not replied to anyone of them. That is why I said that.
12. I don't agree that my take would be just as one sided. you've written this very extreme touching on some of the outer lying tenets of the churchs history. But again, this is your own personal post and I think I've done it injustice in this manner by critically engaging with it. IT wasn't created for public discussion and for that I do apologise.
However, you are aware as I do that the public do read your posts. I think it only fair that in some way, you report why we believe some of these things, rather than proclaiming at the end 'WTF' and ending it like we are some crazed cult.