Okay, so missionaries pay their own way to go on a mission. They don't get to decide where they go, or what they do once they make it to the destination that is chosen for them. Most families send $400 or more per month directly to the Mormon Church for their missionary in the field. The church only gives $130 of that money directly to the missionary for their personal hygiene and food. That comes down to $4 per day.
Faithful families are supposed to take in the missionaries and feed them. Inviting them to family dinners and helping them with their budget, but to be completely honest, it doesn't happen as much as it could. This is a personal response from a mother who received word of her son's trouble with the lack of money for his food and personal hygiene.
I found a post about the BILLION dollar mall [now at 2 BILLION] and all the other stuff the church spends its money on. I was angry and immediately told my husband what I'd been reading. He kept trying to come up with a good reason for the mall, but finally gave up because there is NO WAY to spin it or wrap your brain around any reason good enough for doing this...if it's truly Christ's church and not a corporation.
Well, lo and behold the next day...we get an email from our missionary son in North Carolina. He informs us that his personal budget for food and essentials is being cut by the "church". (WHO in the HECK IS the CHURCH anyway???) His budget of $145 is being cut to $130 permanently. He mentioned that is it "pretty hard to eat good" on $130 and that when he was in his first area, his budget had been $130 and that the members were not feeding them at all. He and his comp got the "award" for least fed in the zone - three meals in a quarter. When I'd found out about the award I'd sent him some money because I didn't want him to starve. I didn't know at that time he was living on $130 a month.
We were sending $400 a month for my son to have the privilege of serving and giving 100% of himself and they only give him $130.
My husband and I discussed the situation when he got home from work. We were so upset, especially in light of the BILLION dollar mall. This was a chink in the armor of the church in my husband's eyes. He made the point that groceries never go down in price, only up. Why would the "church" cut their budget, and not expand it? To the MP's credit, my son said he was trying to convince the church not to cut their funds.
I have to say, this was the last email my son wrote home to us. We were there in North Carolina the next Sunday BRINGING HIM HOME.
When I went to his apartment in was a disgusting mess. It smelled horrible and the kitchen was the worst thing I'd seen in a long time. As I cleaned up I noticed that the basic essentials of a household were not to be found. No napkins, no paper towels, no dish towels, limited cleaning supplies. And why? Because what are you going to buy with a $130 a month? Food or paper products?
AMusingGrace was the author of that small clip. She realized the church was bunk and flew out to pick up her son immediately from the mission field in North Carolina. I can only imagine the son's surprise seeing his family just show up in the mission field. From what I read he was happy to go home.
So, I ask everyone out there in internet-land why the Mormon Church has no problem spending 2 billion dollars on a shopping mall in Salt Lake City, but limits the food for it's own missionaries this way? Isn't that a little crazy? Wait... Isn't that A LOT crazy?
What the Hell???
June 5, 2008 at 2:13 PM
Sydney love,
The mormon cult do not care anything about those missionaries
or their own members and their actions prove this time and time again.
By HOW they won't help out a member when they need food or basic neccesities.
And I am speaking from my own personal experiences and I also know of other members who the lds cult also turned their backs on in their most critical time of need.
I tell you Sydney dear that they did not help me and the reason I believe they did not help me is because I am black.
Because we all know that racism is still alive and well in mormonism.
Because the mormon cult do not care anything about their members.
Their only interested in using you for their own personal gain.
And after the mormon cult has used you up and can not use you any longer they just toss you to the side like you never existed.
It shows us Sid at just how false this lds cult really is.
I guess they forgot to feed Jesus Christ sheep.
But remembered to build billion dollar malls to sale booze and other products.
And another thing Sydney the missionaries are really catching it now because those days when people took the majority of them in for a dinner date is over.
But mormon inc could care less about it's members well being.
What a shame.
I can already see it now.
Jesus saying to those wicked lds leaders.
Depart from me now you workers of iniquity or sin I never knew you.
June 5, 2008 at 4:08 PM
Freakin' beyond belief! Why do people put up with that?
June 5, 2008 at 4:10 PM
Anonymous,
I don't know! I suppose they believe the church is right and every decision the church makes must come from God.
It's laughable. Stuff like this should be in the news. It's insane.
June 5, 2008 at 5:22 PM
I think you need to put things into proper perspective here. With the pricing of housing upping its either a choice to up the mission rate period or reduce the amount of money budgeted to food, etc. I think that doing the latter is probably the better idea personally as Members are supposed to be looking after their missionaries with meals and the like anyway.
Actually its been good for the Australian Missionaries as our rate has gone down with the decline of the American dollar and the market being the way it is over there in the US. Our missionaries are now paying less. So I think you need to put things into a more global and economic perspective before you begin openly attacking the church for its policy decision thus. Does it mean Australian Missionaries are more blessed?? Hardly...
I don't know about the shopping mall thing but its hardly a new concept. The church has investment wings of its 'general' organisation for sometime now in order to perpetuate economic stability and create opportunities for wealth in order to purchase new lands and build new infrastructure. The church will always be criticised for it in my opinion by those who do not believe in organised religions. But the fact is, all organised religions have some financial revenue and wealth creating activities in order to secure stability.
Does anyone critique the Catholic church on here? What about the Born Again Christian movement which flogs CDs and DVDs on TV for profit? The Hillsong Church here in Australia makes massive amounts of money through its selling of CDs and the like. Do I critique them? No because all organisations including non-for profits require commercial investments in order to survive in this contemporary world.
Hell...even Amnesty have a surplus at the end of every financial year based on mixture of commercial and voluntary contributions...
June 5, 2008 at 7:19 PM
Nicko,
Can you live off $4 a day for food and personal hygiene? I dare you.
There is no excuse. The church is wealthy enough to spend 2 BILLION dollars on a freaking shopping mall, and lets these kids starve?
I think it's your perspective that needs a change of view.
June 5, 2008 at 8:27 PM
Sydney,
You are forgetting that I served a mission full time for 2 years and yes it is possible as long as the members serve the missionaries by providing them with good feeds. (the polynesians were the best at this...oh man...)
I never suggested that the rate is low but I did suggest that we need to consider the global economic perspectives which shape this decision in my opinion.
However I don't know really why this has happened. All I know is that the Australians are not suffering....
Are missionaries starving??? I never did...
June 5, 2008 at 9:41 PM
I never forgot you served as a missionary. I am happy that the members helped with your food when you were in the mission field, but most missionaries are not as lucky as you. Most missionaries come home much thinner and less healthy.
The church is extremely wealthy. They have the ability to spend 2 billion bucks on a shopping plaza. Why then, is it necessary for them to CUT the missionaries food and hygiene budget?
Not all missionaries go through this, but a good number of them do! These young men and women are giving up precious time for the church, and being treated horribly in return! $4 a day is not enough. It's not!!!
June 5, 2008 at 10:51 PM
Hey Sidney friend,
I also heard that mormon inc have bought some stocks and investments in the porn industry.
Talking about money to waste on garbage like porn and alcohol all those things they tell others to stay away from.
But it show that they really don't mean it because they would rather invest in filth and booze and build malls and don't forget about temples.
just think of all the food people and missionaries could eat off of if they sold a couple or at least one of those gold moroni statues.
June 6, 2008 at 8:16 AM
I went to Spain on my mission and in some areas we went 2-3 months without meals from members. Many lived on a steady diet of tomato paste and pasta because that is all they could afford. I refused to do that and I used my own money to eat better but not everyone has that option.
There is no good excuse for this!
June 6, 2008 at 9:49 AM
I agree Soy Yo! These kids are going hungry while devoting their lives to this incredibly wealthy church? What is wrong with this picture?
June 6, 2008 at 10:22 AM
Hey Syd,
I know what is wrong with this picture.
And it is called greed,corruption,and another example of the mormon cult not caring about their members.
Once again the mormon cult has said that buildings and temples that will be destroyed.
Is more important than a human life.
WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE?
Because remember Sydney and soy yo when I was a member of the mormon cult they did not help me or care anything about me at all.
Because mormonism leaders worship the God of money and they worship joseph smith.
That is why these missionaries are suffering at the hands of a false religion.
They only worship money and joseph smith.
I guess the so called only true church.
Once again forgot to feed Jesus Christ sheep like he instructed them to do.
Because Jesus Christ tells us in the holy bible.
When you do unto the least of these you have done it unto me.
Because Jesus said when I was hungry you fed me and when I WAS THIRSTY you gave me sometihng to drink and when I was naked you clothed me and when I was in jail you visited me.
I guess the lds leaders omitted or don't accept this part of the gospel.
because when it comes to spending out money on what is important.
The mormon cult is a no show.
For the well being of a human life is very important.
Too bad mormon inc do not see it that way.
Because long as the gospel of joseph smith is being preached the lds cult leaders do not care how many missionaries or members are a casualtie of this twisted lie.
That is also how I know that mormonism is not of God.
Because Jesus Christ said that my true family does what my father in heaven tells them to do.
This is how you know who Jesus Christ sheep is.
because they obey our father in heaven.
And time and time again mormon inc the twisted cult have showed defiance and rebellion and said to God we will not feed your sheep.
THAT SAYS IT ALL BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE
June 6, 2008 at 3:51 PM
donangelo
Where is your proof of this? ITs so easy to say 'I heard that?' or 'someone told me that' but where is your proof? Porn and booze?? That sounds about as likely as the Catholics throwing open the door of the vatican...
Like I said before, the Church has had an investment wing of its organisational structure for more than I have been alive. Does it contradict doctrine? Not really when we consider how much the church has preached 'preparation' financially for sometime now.
Oh but wait is it just the church? No of course it bloody well is not. NGO's all around the world have a commercial arm to their organisational structure in order to 'make a surplus'...
But you know, think what you want about this issue. And in my missionary experience, I don't think you'll find many missionaries at all who would say they ever 'starved' in New Zealand (where I served). I think your comment that missionaries come home 'thin' and 'starved' seems slightly exaggerated. If anything, most of my friends who served all over the world came home fatter. Especially ones who served in America (but not as fat as us NZ missionaries I'll admit that much)
June 7, 2008 at 4:22 PM
Ok, I am not always a defender of the mormon church. In fact, I am a do not contact. I have to say, however, that when I was sick they helped me tremendously financially. I got no emotional support or anything else (in chemo, on morphine, while working full-time).
I think different areas are different? Interesting though, I would have preferred the emotional support or someone bringing me dinner. I wasted so much money on delivery because I was too sick after work to cook or even grocery shop.
June 7, 2008 at 4:52 PM
hey nicko,
the proof is that they would not help me when I was a member.
That missionarie who was risking his life for a pack of lies own parents had to fly and rescue him off of his mission.
because the mormon cult once again cut their food and hygeine budget.
And the mormon cult was also pocketing most of this missionaries money that his parents had been sending their son so he could live pretty comfortable on his mission.
Which once again show that the mormon cult is a theif.
So this is some of the proof nicko.
the mormon cult is too rich to treat any body in this manner period.
June 7, 2008 at 10:37 PM
For once, I totally agree with donangelo...
The Mormon Church is too rich to have it's missionaries starving like this. It shouldn't happen.
Period.
June 7, 2008 at 10:40 PM
Truly Confused,
I agree with what you are saying. For some people, the church DOES help. The variable is always... ALWAYS the bishop.
The bishop decides who gets help, and how much. What if the bishop doesn't think you need help? You are screwed. There is too much power there. Maybe if there was a better way to get help to the members and missionaries I wouldn't have such a huge problem with this one issue.
June 7, 2008 at 11:49 PM
Donangelo and Sydney...my question was not to hear your opinion on how the church should use its money, but to ask where is your proof that the church invests in porn as you so boldly stated in your comment.
IT seems a bit of damned if you do damned if you don't. I received help from my stake to go on my mission because I was a member of just 2 years and my stake president understood that I wouldn't be prepared financially. So I disagree that the variable is the bishop because it extends to higher offices at times.
Look, you can critique any institution in any era about how it uses its finances. In the end, what does it matter to you? I could understand if you were still paying tithing and were disgruntled about it all but we are the ones who contribute the tithing and the fast offering and the many other forms of financial supplements to what we 'believe' to be the Lord's kingdom here on Earth. Go and ask all the missionaries in the MTC at Provo how they feel about the reduction in money provided to them week in week out then come back and tell us how they who actually contribute feel about how their money is spent.
In the end, it is our money, which we believe is not ours to begin with...why don't you ask US how we feel about it...
Again, how do you reconcile that the elders and sisters in Australia are now paying less, and getting more? Seems hard to believe that the Church is biased against the US missionaries alone...
June 8, 2008 at 4:28 AM
There was a benefit to the bishop being misogynistic, I am a single woman without family support. I think he felt it was a man's job to help me. This particular bishop was good to anyone in the ward who needed help-even going so far as to do it at of his own pocket if needed.
I just wanted to at least pipe up and say that they do come out and help sometimes.
June 8, 2008 at 10:06 AM
Nicko,
Whoa... *I* never said the church invested in porn, donangelo did. Please remember that.
What I AM saying is that it's obvious the church is wealthy, so obvious in fact, that they can spend 2 billion bucks on a shopping mall while claiming it didn't come from tithing money! That means the church is incredibly rich, doesn't it?
Why is it then, that the church lets these missionaries stave like this? Why does the church take so much of that money away from the missionaries who NEED it.
If the church is spending tons of this money on charity, why won't they share the reports?
June 8, 2008 at 10:11 AM
Nicko,
Also, you stated, "What does it matter to you?" I will tell you what it matters to me... it's injustice. It's not right!!! Some of these kids go through pure hell on their missions while the church spends money on a shopping plaza. Shouldn't we step up and say something when we see something happening that isn't right? Doesn't the Mormon Church preach that you should do this?
Asking missionaries in Provo, Utah won't give me any answers and we both know it. We are talking about kids sent far from home, out of the country at times with little to no money. The Mormon population in Utah is so high that the missionaries in Provo are probably being treated extremely well. Members probably cook for them every night. They are not the ones having this problem.
So, since it's *your* money, why do you feel it's okay for this to happen? Why to you think it's okay for a missionary to have 4 dollars a day on his mission when the missionary or the missionaries family pays MUCH more than that?
It's not the US missionaries alone. It's missionaries who speak up.
June 8, 2008 at 10:58 AM
Sydney,
The reason the mormon cult do not share their financial report is because they got sometihng to hide.
because remember Syd my former mormon bishop was a real abuser who abused his step daughter his congregation who smoked cigars who pretty much abused his place of authority and so called power.
My former mormon bishop was a real
hypocrite.
June 8, 2008 at 7:41 PM
Sydney you agreed with his comment...which was a reply to my questioning whether he had proof of the investment into Porn. Mix up in communication there.
donangelo, some of your comments are pure slander. If you look up where 'slander' actually comes from using Ancient Greek and the like, I think you'd be slightly agitated.
Syd..
'Pure Hell' oh man Sydney they aren't serving in Basra. I had a companion who served in the first Iraq offensive who knew what 'Hell' was...and a mission it ain't. I'll give you it was one of the hardest things I've ever done, but not because I was hungry, although I did eat alot!
I commend you however on what appears to be a fairly genuine 'altruistic' attitude, but I think injustice is a fairly strong word to be using. I could understand if these missionaries were been sent like child soldiers out into the world, not being looked after and hung out to dry, but its far from the truth of the matter.
Members of the church and out of the church love missionaries (well not all I admit). I can remember having been fed by loads of non-member families just because they respected what it was we were doing and how much we were sacrificing for this faith.
How do I justify or rationalise a rich church taking money from the missionaries? I don't think they are? All of the money donated or paid by missionaries who are serving goes towards their housing costs and the like. As far as I remember, each mission is giving a set amount of money pooled from the missionary donations. Part of which goes to the elders and sisters, the other part to the mission office in order to pay for the infrastructure costs of serving. Rent, bills, etc, etc, etc...these all add up.
In the end of the day, you can critique it all you desire, but Elders and Sisters serve and sacrifice willingly for a reason. And that reason in the end is a love of Christ and a reliance on him to provide.
Like I said, me and none of the many friends that I have who served ever considered it 'pure hell' or 'starvation'...for that you are surmising having never been there yourself.
June 8, 2008 at 9:00 PM
Nicko, I agreed with this comment, the porn comment was made earlier in the conversation... much earlier:
"the mormon cult is too rich to treat any body in this manner period."
You were definitely mistaken.
What is evident here is that you had none of these troubles when you were on your mission, and you don't know how bad it can be living on FOUR DOLLARS A DAY!!!
I didn't say they were in a war zone, but they are completely cut off from friends, family, and FOOD for crying out loud!!! That, is pure hell, and it breaks people down.
Just because you didn't have this happen to you, doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist! You had people feeding you, thats great. That isn't the case for everyone, Nicko. Lets face it. Four dollars a day isn't enough.
It's not.
There is no excuse for that. Could you live on four dollars a day? Could you ask one of your kids to?
June 9, 2008 at 3:06 AM
Sydney,
you keep saying just because it happened to you, doesn't mean it doesn't happen to others...but what do you know honestly? Do you have friends a plenty who have served missions? Do they describe being "severed from friends and family" as hell?
Come on now...be real. You don't honestly know at all...you're just surmising.
And I do know what its like because in one of my areas we only had a few members...and we survived quite fine. CAll it a miracle...
June 9, 2008 at 9:49 AM
Nicko,
Yes. I do have friends who served missions. They pretty much agree that being cut off from your friends and family was pure hell.
I get that you had a good experience, but the missionary training center alone was hard on these friends. Then they were sent out, had a companion they didn't know but had to be around 24-7, and they didn't have MONEY!
I am being real here. I don't understand why you can't get this!
We keep getting past the point though, Nicko. Is $4 enough? Would you or could to live on that kind of money? Would you ask your kids to? It's not enough money.
It's not enough money!
June 9, 2008 at 5:01 PM
Hey Nicko,
You never did answer my question.
Why is it that mormon inc try to hide joseph smith deep dark past?
Why won't mormon inc come clean nicko and tell the members the true history about the lds church and let them decide what they think about the false prophet joseph smith after they have heard the entire truth.
Why do you keep beating around the bush nick and will not answer my questions?
because the truth still remain the false prophet joseph smith killed two men and had sexual relations with some 14 year old girls.
June 9, 2008 at 6:32 PM
donangelo,
you didn't answer my question at all and thats exactly what you do because you don't have them.
I've already established quite clearly that its very ambiguous to claim that JS had sex with the one 'definitive' 14 year old marriage partner. And I've already dealt with your 'killing two men' fiasco. If you can't deal with JS doing that in self-defence, then you may as well throw away your entire OT and parts of your NT as well. I'm sure there were many of your types in Paul's day who said 'how can this man be an apostle after he put Christians to death'. If you can't be bothered reading or replying to my posts, then I'm not going to bother replying to your 'slander'.
Syd,
I bet that if we got 1000 missionaries returned and asked them if it was 'pure hell' you'd get a very slim minority who would declare it as such. As I've said, no friends of mine (and I have some who have since left the church) would declare the mission in such a manner. But hey whatever..I think that argument is just semantics...
As for your suggestion have I or would I live on $4 a day? Well lets consider that I lived on $140/ fortnight on my mission in NZ currency which then translated into the exchange rate of .4101 US dollars (most of 2001 was at this rate), I was actually living on about $3US a day. So yeah, I know what its like...and again no...I didn't die of starvation...even in the areas where the members were thin.
June 19, 2008 at 2:43 PM
There is a serious lack of logic being used here. $400 per month is paid by the families. Let's say that $130 goes for food, hygiene, etc. as you mention.
So we're left with $270? Two missionaries in an apartment. How many apartments in the United States are less than $540/month? Very few, especially when you consider utilities.
Furthermore, from that $270 also probably comes some of the other expenses, like cars and bikes for transportation, and other administrative expenses.
To claim that the Church is somehow keeping the money that is paid by families is ridiculous. The missionary program is heavily subsidized by the Church.
I served in a variety of areas--some where I was fed a few times a week, some where I was never fed once during my 4 months there because there were not very many members. My budget was $145/month and we lived just fine.
Please think through all the issues .