Windy Sydney

June 23, 2008 at 12:13 PM

Hey Sydney love,

You know by now I am a bread and butter bible believing christian.

And I am against gay marriages and affairs because our God the true and living God of the holy bible is against gay marriage.

Because the great God of the holy bible tells us all that it is evil and wrong for a man to lay with a man,and a woman to lay with a woman,when it comes to sexual relations.

Because to tell you the truth sydney the whole nation seems like it is going to hell in a hand basket.

because God hates sin. psalm 5:5

and the wages of sin is death,the soul that sinneth shall surely die.

because look at all this massive weather that has struck this nation.

from floods to wild fires.

I believe it is God punishing america for her wicked ways.

because I love my country,but we all must repent and turn away from our sins,and turn back to the God of the bible.

because remember the wicked shall be turned into hell,and all peoples and nations who forget about God shall be turned into hell. psalm 9:17

because remember syd that is why God destroyed sodom and gommorah because of their wicked evil perverted ways.

so yes I am against gay marriages and relationships in the strongest voice and terms.

because it is a abomination in the eye sight of the lord that is holy.

June 23, 2008 at 12:15 PM

Donangelo,

You can be against it all you want. I have no problem with people believing what they want. It's when you push those beliefs on others...

It's not up to us to tell someone else who they can or cannot marry. It's discrimination.

*you* believe it's an abomination, but I don't. Why should a gay or lesbian couple have to live by your rules?

June 23, 2008 at 12:32 PM

Hey Syd,

Remember that it is not what I say.

But it is what the great God of Israel says and these are his rules.

Speaking of marriage syd.

When are you going to become a born again christian so that we can get married the holy biblical way.

June 23, 2008 at 12:35 PM

donangelo,

That is what you believe. I certainly don't agree that God (if God exists) would say this.

Again, you cannot force other people to live by your beliefs. Plain and simple.

As for me becoming a born again Christian, it will never happen. I don't agree with your views 99% of the time, and I never will. We will never be married, and I have asked you before to stop talking like that and bringing that kind of talk here. There will not be a relationship, that needs to be clear.

June 23, 2008 at 1:10 PM

Hey Sydney,

I love reading your blog, and have been for some time (I lurk at postmormon and that's how I found you here). I always look forward to reading new posts- you have such great perspective and I really admire the way you allow debate in your comments and are always civil even when others are not and do not deserve your kindness.

I know you don't like silencing any voices here, but this donangelo character is really creepy and just seems to be getting worse. I don't recall him ever having anything worthwhile to add to the conversation, just insults, fundamentalist christian drivel, and creepy innuendo. "When are you going to become a born again christian so that we can get married the holy biblical way.".....WTF?!? That is just f'd up.

I don't think anyone's feelings would be hurt if you blocked him!

June 23, 2008 at 1:45 PM

Thank you for the comment Amber!

I consider stopping the publication of donangelo's posts all the time. I agree that the posts are getting creepy, and sometimes I even believe it's someone just trying to mess with the readers on this blog.

A few months ago I even had to contact the FBI over a personal threat to me and someone else who posts here (he runs his own website as well). I am very careful to not give out too much personal information, just in case someone does decide to go a little wacko.

I appreciate the concern, and I am really glad you like it here. I hope you continue to read and post comments as well! If donangelo keeps going down this road, I will have no choice but to block him. It's nice knowing someone out there understands why I made the decision if and when that time comes.

June 23, 2008 at 1:52 PM

It really is so sad that a church who has the power to preach to millions of people choose to preach hate. They claim to be non-judgemental, that everyone has their own free will and has the right to make their own choices but they keep impeding on the choices of hundreds of thousands of people who want nothing more than equal rights. I just find it so wrong that a religion can be so hateful.

I love the way you write!

June 23, 2008 at 1:59 PM

Demand More,

Thank you for the compliment on my writing... I tend to ramble and not pay attention sometimes. I am glad it even resembles human speech. :)

Any ban on gay marriage is unconstitutional. Period.

I really don't care if people feel it's against God's wishes for people to be in gay/lesbian relationships... it's their right to believe that. When they tell other people who are not of their religion or beliefs how they should live their lives they cross the line.

It needs to stop. I get SO MAD about this stuff. Everyone deserves to be happy. Everyone.

June 23, 2008 at 2:14 PM

Hey Syd,

I am sorry if I offended you and I promise that I will never ask you that again.

because you have made your self crystal clear.

June 23, 2008 at 2:31 PM

I agree. Why does the mormon church see this as a threat? Why does anyone? Any man or woman has the right to be happy.

One of my pet peeves is when the government mkes moral laws that take away peoples rights. Why is it that this is supposed to be a land of religious freedom yet people continue to push their beliefs on the population? All because of a book created and negotiated by men who enjoyed power. I also have a huge problem with giving married couple tax credits and excluding any relationship from that credit.

Ugh. I could go on all day about this one.

June 23, 2008 at 3:03 PM

Demand More,

It's morally wrong to take someone else's rights away. They have done nothing wrong. How in the world can they do this in the name of God? Is that something He would do? No!

The whole thing is messed up, it gets me really worked up.

I hear anti-gay statements all the time living in Utah. I cringe and reply letting them know it's not okay to say stuff like that. How can they bash gays and lesbians? Would they bash Catholics? Black people? People who write left-handed? UGH!

June 23, 2008 at 3:13 PM

My mother grew up in Utah, was born left-handed, and was forced to write with her right hand in school. Does that answer your question? :-)

June 23, 2008 at 3:14 PM

Steve-O

That might be funny if it wasn't so sad! :) Your poor Mom!

June 23, 2008 at 3:18 PM

I totally agree. It is morally wrong to discriminate. period.

Yeah I live in the salt lake valley and people seem to think it is acceptable to say these things. Like there isn't even other opinions on this. My own family is some of them.

I need to move to Portland!

June 23, 2008 at 3:22 PM

Demand More,

I moved back to Utah after spending 7 years in Orlando, FL about a year ago.

Orlando was a very open community, we had gay pride parades, people freely had rainbow stickers on their cars... it was something that was kind of celebrated. Everyone being able to be who they were... it was great. Both of my employers in Orlando offered health benefits to same sex couples and helped them adopt.

When I moved back to Utah it was almost physically sickening to hear some of the things people would say. I don't feel bad about telling them it's not right to say those things... I used to be too self-conscious to say anything.

After my sense of injustice of learning that I was lied to by the church, I find it important to speak out on all injustice. I don't put up with it. Not anymore.

June 23, 2008 at 3:47 PM

Sydney friend,

Marriage according to God is between a man and a woman.

because as a nation we must get back to moral clarity.

and get back to christian principles in which this nation was founded on.

because remember one nation under God.

remember they use to display the ten commandments of God in the court houses.

because the truth is syd this is a christian nation or it was a christian nation.

and even some of this nations founding fathers were christian believers in the biblical God.

so you see syd friend what is unconstitutional is when supreme court justices abuse their powers and support and legalize gay marriages.

because God is against gays and all workers of evil and sin.

and that is why I am also against gays.

because it brings destruction and havoc to the family structure.

that's why a good group to support as a christian is called focus on the family.

because the family is very important.

because gay people are not happy they pretend to be.

because there is no way anyone who is wicked can be happy when God is against them.

no way no how.

June 23, 2008 at 5:30 PM

donangelo,

I have to tell you that you are a bigot. You take every opportunity to tell people how to live their lives and what they are doing wrong according to God, yet you sit back and call gays and lesbians "workers of evil and sin."

You are not living up to your precious Christian beliefs yet again donangelo.

I am personally offended that you would say these things, and even that you would think them. You have no right to sit there and say that they are not happy, they are just pretending to be happy. How would you know that? Do you have some kind of personal experience in that area?

Gays and lesbians are not wicked. You, on the other hand, are showing some pretty nasty qualities.

Take a look in the mirror. It might do you some good.

June 23, 2008 at 6:55 PM

Ahh always wondered when we would get to the gay marriage debate, and here we are. I have to confess I am a fence sitter here. Whilst I don't agree that gay marriage should be institutionalised, I have serious questions as to whether we can actually legally practice against the rights of couples in partnerships having the same legal rights as normal heterosexual couples. ITs all very and highly controversial stuff.

I think however we should be careful in discussing it. I have three friends who are gay. One is adamant that gay marriage should be legalised in the fullest sense, another is not in a relationship at the moment and has no opinion, the other is vehemently opposed to it citing that marriage is a traditional institution that she and her partner want no part in.

There is a fairly substantial section of gays and lesbians in Australia that agree with the latter statement, as well as the former.

AS for the church taking a stance against it, its hardly surprising. We are after all a traditional institution that declares that marriage between man and a woman is holy. The argument cannot really go rationally beyond this. You either believe that God doesn't want it, or you don't.

I think however that there is a very good argument on legalities on whether you can really hinder a partnership on economic or political grounds when its obvious that they should have similar legal and economic rights as others.

As for making 'marriage' in the strictest sense of the word, I have to agree with the latter argument from my lesbian friend.

June 23, 2008 at 7:06 PM

donangelo,

I just wanted to add that this country was not found on Christian Priciples. The founding fathers were not Christian, the four well known and spoken of fathers were Deists, just read their Journals.

Any God worth worshiping would accept ALL men and women equally.

June 23, 2008 at 7:08 PM

But hey Syd,

God says that gays and lesbians are wicked.
According to the holy bible.

let God be true and every man a liar. romans 3:4

June 23, 2008 at 7:20 PM

Nicko,

I have to tell you that I wish all people approached this subject the way you did. I have great respect for you, even though we have two very different opinions.

You spoke your mind without having to pick apart people and call them names like "evil." I appreciate the way you express yourself without putting others down. Thank you for that.

Demand More,

The more I hear from donangelo, the more I am convinced he has no idea what being a true christian means. It's obvious he is very confused in this case.

June 23, 2008 at 7:25 PM

donangelo,

It amazes me that you think God hates some people. What you fail to understand is that God wants us to love each other. You don't have the right to tell other people they are wicked. That is something only God can do.

Again, your comments are bigoted, and I don't appreciate them.

You can disagree with my point of view, but I refuse to stand back and let you call people evil. What you are doing is showing people how horrible some christians can be.

June 23, 2008 at 8:10 PM

Hey Syd,

I do love all people.

That is why I am telling all gays and lesbians that God disaproves of their life style and it is a abomination in his sight.

because if you love someone you tell them the truth and that is what i'm doing.

because the true and living God of the holy bible is worthy of all the worship and praise.

because the true and living God don't accept all people.

that is why he send the wicked and all workers of evil to hell.

and all those who have rejected his beloved son Jesus Christ our savior.

and that is why all of us who have been redeemed by the precious blood of the lamb and are saved by grace we go to heaven.

because God hates sin. psalm 5:5

because demand more what you have did is created a false God to fit your own desires and lifestyle.

and in most cases that is what people do.

because remember the first commandment of God.

Thou shall not have no other gods before me.

because look at it this way.

When a criminal commit a crime,and stand before a judge,if the criminal is found guilty by the courts,the judge must do his job and punish the criminal and sentence him.

It is the same way with a just pure and holy God.

he must punish those who are wicked and evil,if they don't repent and turn away from their wicked ways.

because what kind of loving God would that be if he let the wicked go unpunished.
and yes sydney and demand more I love all of you and that is why I must tell you the truth.

not what I say, but it is what God says according to the holy bible.

June 23, 2008 at 8:16 PM

donangelo,

It's amazing how little you understand your own religion.

The truth is that it's God's job to judge and punish people. It's not your job nor your responsibility. You have a habit of getting in the mindset that you constantly know what God wants.

True Christians would never in a million years act the way you act or say the things you say.

I am now done discussing this with you because you can't seem to grasp anything I say. I am talking to a tub of jello again.

June 23, 2008 at 8:27 PM

I think I just lost a long comment that I'd written--I hate it when that happens.

In any case, the recent California Supreme Court decision which effectively legalized gay marriage in the state may have opened up the church and other organizations to legal and media scrutiny. Religions typically have more leeway than the government to discriminate for their own purposes (and actually, the government can discriminate against a person on the basis of their religion under the Civil Rights Act of 1964 if the basis of that discrimination is national security), but with all the attention this issue is getting, you can bet the church would want to avoid any such scrutiny, as well as the possibility that it might have to someday perform marriages for gay couples in California or any other state.

This is all just speculation--it would be great if we had a California lawyer to chime in here.

June 23, 2008 at 8:29 PM

Donangelo-Should we go through the list of other things the scriptures say you cannot do?

Let's start with women staying silent in church. Next, let's talk about not touching a woman while she is on the rag (personally, i would likley punch a man for asking me that).

Don't forget pork is an unclean animal. Are you following the temple worship as set apart in the bible. Have you sold all of your posessions to follow Christ yet? If you have ever jerked off, you are going to hell (AND NONE US WANT TO KNOW IF YOU HAVE!!!!).

Do you wear colored clothes? Bible says they should be white. Have you been stoning adulterers? The old testament says you should. How many kids do you have? have you been being fruitful to multiply and replenish?

The rules in the bible constantly contradict one another. Why? because if it was divinely inspired, early christians have destroyed whatever truth is left by translating it so many times. Think of the game telephone and you will get the idea.

I am so sick of self-righteous, holier than thou people deciding that they get to decide to pick and choose what to believe from the bible based on your personal opinion. Same sex marriages don't hurt anyone! Just because it doesn't appeal to you doesn't mean it should be outlawed. People didn't like civil rights when they first started. It took good, kind people to take a stand against it. Women who wanted the right to vote were put in mental institutions. And God forbid a woman have the right to make the decision on how many kids to have and whether or not to be on birth control (yes, illegal at one time too).

We live in a world that thinks we have to put people down and hold them down in order to be good. We need to get over it and try to be better people.

In fact instead of worrying about this crap, go spend some energy fighting hunger. Tutor someone who can't read. Help someone take out the trash. Be a better person. Lift someone up, don't tear them down!

Finally, the God I believe in doesn't give a shit was two consensual adults are doing. He/She cares about who you treat others, how you strive to leave the world better than when you entered it, and how you strive to lift others up.

All you people in organized religion need to get over yourselves until you are striving to make the world a better place. And doing missionary work to convert others doesn't cut it. (people need to be fed before they will care about religion-always).

Stepping off soap box now....

June 23, 2008 at 9:24 PM

Truly Confused,

There you go taking exactly what is in my head and writing it better than I could have ever dreamed. I bow down to your writing abilities. I am not worthy.

You can get up on your soap box any time you want. As a matter of fact, I would love to erect a permanent soap box just for you. We shall surround it will those velvet ropes you see in museums. We will make it secure with laser beams and trap doors!

June 23, 2008 at 11:11 PM

To truly confused,

No I am not rich if you are talking about money wise and material wise.

But I am just a christian man who is spiritualy rich.

I am just a servant of our lord and savior the biblical Jesus Christ.

Because I am blessed because we christians have the truth that has set us free.

And no I do not have any children I am a thirty one year old christian who is still a virgin.

But I do look forward to having some kids some day if the lord is willing.

And I do sometimes eat pork.

because we have all sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God. romans 3:23

And I do try to lead by example.

just like our lord and savior the biblical Jesus Christ led by example.

June 24, 2008 at 3:23 AM

Sydney, I cannot wait to see the soapboxyou build for me!

June 24, 2008 at 6:30 AM

Steve-o, that left-hand thing happened to my mom also and she was neither mormon nor raised in Utah- I think it was just a left over ignorant superstition of her time.

I am 35, straight (bi really but not practicing), and have no interest in marriage. I am in a happy long term relationship and we both consider ourselves committed to each other without the slip of paper. I wish the institution of marriage would disappear completely as I feel it has outlived it's usefulness in our society but I understand that a lot of people hold it as a romantic ideal. I believe that EVERYONE should have the right to be married if that's what they desire. They should be able to adopt children too for that matter. The loving commitment is what counts- not your gender.

June 24, 2008 at 10:11 AM

donangelo,

What you fail to understand is that you, yourself, fall short of the rules you put on everyone else.

Before you start telling other people how to live your perfect Christian life, you should be willing to do that yourself.

You are not leading by example at all... you are doing the opposite.

June 24, 2008 at 10:55 AM

I can't remember the quote but there was a statement made saying that there is no political view that all members should hold. The church does not tell people how to vote. Although I do believe that the church has a very large influence on how people vote.

When it comes to gay marriage. There is a conflict. Marriage is something held sacred to the members of the church and it is hard for members to see it become something it is not. There is also the doctrine of free agency. I think that people should be able to choose. Even if it I feel it perverts something sacred to me.

I do stand by the doctrine that marriage is supposed to be between a man and a woman. Both heterosexuals and homosexuals need to be in control of their feelings and keep themselves worthy for a marriage. Once married they will both need to commit to their spouse even if are attracted to somebody else of the same or opposite gender.

I believe that marriage is an unselfish commitment to your spouse to create a good environment for raising kids. I believe that it is meant for a man and a woman, where both the husband and the wife needs to make sacrifices to make the marriage work. I think God's commandment against homosexual marriage is meant to protect us from unseen consequences of participating in such actions.

June 24, 2008 at 10:57 AM

James,

You really believe that the church is saying they have no political view that all members should hold?

Wake up and smell the yummy coffee my friend!

They tell the members how to think, believe, act, and vote. I was in many meetings when the bishop would get up at the pulpit, adjust the microphone, and tell everyone who to vote for. It happens and we all know it.

June 24, 2008 at 11:20 AM

They tell the members how to think, believe, act, and vote. I was in many meetings when the bishop would get up at the pulpit, adjust the microphone, and tell everyone who to vote for. It happens and we all know it.

Well the bishop should not do that.

http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/public-issues/political-neutrality

There is a pretty well made statement about the church and politics.

June 24, 2008 at 11:21 AM

James,

How do you explain this recent activity against gay marriage in California? The church wrote a letter and it will be read in every church meeting...

They are telling people what to do and how to think, it's obvious and it's right here in front of you. Open your eyes.

June 24, 2008 at 11:59 AM

How do you explain this recent activity against gay marriage in California? The church wrote a letter and it will be read in every church meeting...

That all depends on what is in the letter.

June 24, 2008 at 12:19 PM

James,

I feel as if you will defend the church no matter what, even when faced with obvious evidence that they say one thing and do another.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,370582,00.html

Read that story.

The church is asking members of the church to donate time and money toward the ban of gay marriage. How is this not getting involved in politics? How is this not telling people what they should believe in and what they should think about the subject?

It's right in front of you.

June 24, 2008 at 12:32 PM

Amber,

The left-handed thing was a joke. It was merely coincidence that my mother went through this in Utah. This same thing happened all over the world, including places like China.

This is really for another discussion, but it's interesting how the left side came to be so poorly regarded, even in our own language. The Latin word for left (sinister) came to have an entirely different and negative meaning in English. Fascinating.

June 24, 2008 at 4:10 PM

I feel as if you will defend the church no matter what, even when faced with obvious evidence that they say one thing and do another.

The Church does:

Reserve the right as an institution to address, in a nonpartisan way, issues that it believes have significant community or moral consequences or that directly affect the interests of the Church.

It looks like they are doing exactly what they say they do. The church has always defined marriage as something for a man and a woman and wants that politically.

June 24, 2008 at 4:25 PM

I feel as if you will defend the church no matter what.

I don't mind, it feels as if you are always against the church.

June 24, 2008 at 5:08 PM

James-if you doubt what Sydney is saying, look at what happened to the Danzigs. A professor wrote a letter opposing the church's stance on gay marriage. Peter Danzig wrote a letter to the editor of the Salt Lake Tribune supporting the professor. He was basically harassed out of the church and the church did release a statement about it.

Can you tell me how you reconcile this: http://www.newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/commentary/care-for-the-flock

with this: http://mormonstories.org/other/08028_00.pdf

So. Let get this straight. Church members are to express themselves to their politicians-but they don't tell members how to feel. Then the new letter says to support the ban of gay marriage.

What were you saying about the church not telling people how to vote? Because I think you lost me...

June 24, 2008 at 7:03 PM

Sydney, Thanks for the kind words. I try my hardest to maintain the 'non-judgemental' line in all that I do. Born again Christians will often cite that they are trying to be like 'Jesus' by condemning and judging and whilst I agree partially with them (trying to be like Christ), I cannot agree that we can ever fully appreciate nor understand someone's life so fully as to condemn them to hell ourselves. Judgement belongs to Christ and only he alone knows how to do it....only he alone knows how to 'understand' his people.

Back to the comments at hand.

I think James is partially right Syd. I don't think that any MORMON Bishop should be telling people how to 'vote' in a General Election. When it comes to clear cut moral issues however, I think that the Church has every right to ask its constituents to step up for what we believe is right. However, I don't see anything in the communique which designates that members 'have to'.

I seem to recall leading up to the War on Iraq President Hinckley suggested that he was all for it, but that no member should be disallowed to protest it peacefully (ok I must confess...I was so angry I may have attended a not so peaceful rally...that I need to repent of). Furthermore, I know you live in Republican heartland there, but Elder Maxwell himself was a true blue Democrat. So I don't think you can honestly state that the Church forces people to vote one way or the other in elections. And if any leader does, they should be rebuked. Moral issues is another story though.

But again this really does come to the heart of the argument. As I've stated in my post, I think we really do need to be quite careful as to what we are discussing here. I do believe the words of my Lesbian friend (admittedly I like her better and have known her for longer than the others) when she designates marriage as a tradition that the gay community should avoid. IT is after all based on traditional notions, something that 'gay unions' are not. She believes quite strongly on this that Gays and Straights should be seperated on this issue and not joined. Blurring the lines in her opinion will serve to disassemble the whole meaning of her own 'gay' union which she believes is based on different values to that of my own heterosexual union. That I don't totally understand, but I guess what she is trying to suggest is that marriage under a Christian God is not what she is about considering that most 'Christians' don't support homosexuality period. Whoa...I think I've digressed lots now.

What WE do need to be critical of is any legal or economic restrictions placed on same sex couples. I think I've said enough but let me just reiterate, noone should be denied the legal and economic protection of the justice and social security systems just because they are 'homosexual' and have 'same sex partners'. This would be a violation of basic civil rights in my opinion.

The institutionalisation of 'marriage' I think is another debate. Not legal, but more moral and far more complex in nature.

June 24, 2008 at 9:17 PM

Hey Amber,

I see now that you do not even believe in God.

And that is why you have chosen this evil bi life style.

That is going to make God punish you for your wickedness.

Because the fear of the lord is the begining of knowledge and wisdom.

So to all you gays and lesbians repent now and repent today.

because God hates sin psalm 5:5

because syd I never said I was perfect.

because doing wrong is always sin,but there is sin that do not lead to eternal death. 1 john 5:17

so one must examine their sin level to see which catogory they belong in.

because it all makes since now why amber do not want me to preach the word of God.

because she is another lesbian on the highway to hell if she do not repent.

and turn from her wicked ways.

because I love you syd I really do as a friend who prays for a friend and their well being.

because amber the holy bible tells us surely you know that the people who do wrong will not inherit God's kingdom.

Do not be fooled.Those who sin sexually,worship idols,take part in adultery,those who are male prostitutes,or men who have sexual relations with other men,those who steal,are greedy,get drunk,lie about others,or rob-these people will not inherit God's kingdom.

In the past some of you were like that,but you were washed clean.You were made holy,and you were made right with God in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the spirit of our God 1 corinthians 9-11

because all those who do not believe in the biblical Jesus Christ and who have rejected God's only son is condemned already.

because this is why I come here to preach what God says according to the holy bible.

and I am doing it all out of love for all of you here and there and everywhere.

so that the truth will set you free.

June 25, 2008 at 12:27 AM

Re-read my post donangelo...you religion (born-again christiandom) has no right whatsoever to condemn folk to hell openly...is that truly being Christlike? I sincerely doubt you have the capacity to judge everyone on their merits...

June 25, 2008 at 8:08 AM

Okay � this comment (or question rather) is going to come across as harsh � but I just want to ask.
Why do gays want to push for marriage so much anyway? I�m sure there are many reasons, but what do you think the primary reasons really are? What more would be gained by having legalized same sex marriages when many already have commitment ceremonies, etc?
Originally I figured that they wanted marriage so one partner could cover the other on their work�s health insurance and such (but most companies already will do this, all you have to do is fill out a form). The only other real hiccup I can think of is retirement benefits at death (i.e. you have to be married I think for the living spouse to receive SS benefits after one�s death � same for most pension plans, etc). What else is there really?

I know that�s way off topic, but I do not yet feel close enough to any of my gay friends to ask such personal questions (and I don�t want them to think I don�t sympathize with their predicament in the matter). Back on topic though � as for the church (any church really), it�s up to them to �grant� a church wedding on a case by case basis. I was married in a Methodist church, and even there my spouse and I went through Methodist counseling where we had to �pass� before the preacher married us (meaning that that preacher could decline to marry us if he didn�t think we were a good fit). I think a lot of churches do this. I guess what I�m saying is that once gay marriage is legalized across the states, gays will have get married outside of the big organized churches for a very, very long time. I don�t feel that this point (the church part) is right, wrong, or otherwise. Each church will just have to navigate the way they feel about that on their own. But � I do heartily agree with you Syd � in that the church (ANY church) shouldn�t force their view on nonbelievers by dictating to the government what should or should not be legal. Hello � separation of church and state anyone?!

June 25, 2008 at 5:48 PM

Anonymous,

They push for it because it's their right as human beings. Seems pretty simple to me.

June 25, 2008 at 6:57 PM

I doubt they would push for it if there weren't so many financial, legal and social implications attached to the idea of marriage. If the same legal status and protections were offered to same-sex and unmarried couples as married couples, the issue of gay marriage would likely not be a big one.

June 25, 2008 at 8:12 PM

Why do straight people want to get married? My gay friends all say it is because they wanted to be treated as equals.

They have the right to have their relationship recognized.

In all seriousness, why do so many people oppose it? I ask because we pick and choose what we want to beieve from the bible anyway. Why is this differenct? Why do we choose to ignore the other counsel that makes no sense (not touching a woman on her period, allowing women to speak in church, etc.) but we decide this one is worth paying attention to. Fear? Disgust?

I think it is really important to stop and realize that a huge portion of people didn't believe in equal rights for people of color and for women. This is no different. We cannot legislate morality, or what people view as morality. I think it is far more immoral to try to take away people's rights than it is to marry someone of the same gender.

Also, people always complain that the gay lifestyle is so promiscuous. They try to change that view and people fight that too.

August 5, 2008 at 11:31 AM

I think that this would be something very appropriate for your website to talk about. Women and girls need to be considered equals in life, and as my story shows, girls can earn the respect they deserve. A very young girls' soccer team played in a league that they dominated. The girls won every game, even against other girls that were older than them. Their coach made a bold move and put them into the boys league. This was met with some criticism, but as the girls did exceptionally well, it made people stop and think about what was fair and right concerning girls and boys. People should not be discriminated against based on gender, and these girls overcame that discrimination. Watch the trailer at www.kicklikeagirlmovie.com and see what you think.